I recently sat down with my 18watt marshall clone, Matchless lightening Clone and D13 9/15 and tried out some el84s. JJ- no. - when compared to what you can find on the market right now. Ei - OK big sounding tubes. Then I met this guy over at the 18watt board. firstname.lastname@example.org He had some 84s listed for sale and was in socal so I figured a trip was in order. I listened to and bought a quad of Telam 84s for 75 bucks as well as a duet of some big bottled russian mil spec 84s for 15. The russians for 15.00 will stomp any current production tube. Period. Better bass tighter tone better smoother highend than any of the jj/Ei/Sovtek stuff. These are a no brainer. I am going to purchase 8 more just for backup. The real winner however was the Telams. As sweet as any mullard or telefunken I have ever heard at less than a quarter of the price. I am going to grab another quad. I think then he will only have a few quads left. As long as I can get these tubes they will be the only thing I will use in my 84 amps. Any of you guys running a 84 based amp should really jump on these. Just a heads up.