Electric Saz/Baglama?

Discussion in 'The Small Company Luthiers' started by Guitarpentry, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. Guitarpentry

    Guitarpentry Member

    Messages:
    522
    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    After seeing a link posted in the guitarviol thread I saw the guitar player from Niyaz playing a saz/baglama (I think) and I totally dig the sound!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91pMQfuZf04
    A guitarviol and a saz in one clip, sweet!
    Never seen/heard a saz before, unless it's the instrument Steve Kimock uses sometimes. Saw him play live with something strange like this.

    Here's a couple quick clips I found:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TMtOo5-9g4&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpHDl2S6gXs&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh5sr647AUQ&feature=related

    Anyone know more about these instruments around here? I'm curious as to how they are constructed: Mulberry/hardwood body (tekne)....soundplate/(gogus)-spruce.....and (sap) section (neck?) is typically beech or juniper. I juniper is supposed to be a super hard wood.

    Are the frets made of nylon and movable? Scale lengths seem to be available in a variety of lengths, and necks available in long/short. These things seem so cool, especially if outfitted with some pickups and the ability to 'plug in.'

    I found this cool site that sells 'em:
    http://www.eraydinsazevi.com.tr/saz.htm

    I thought maybe some of the luthiers here in this forum might have more information/thoughts on this cool instrument. I'm totally curious after youtubing saz and baglama all night.:dude It'd be fun to have one of the luthier's here build their take on a saz.
     
  2. phantasm

    phantasm Member

    Messages:
    1,215
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Cool indeed.
    Check out the Ferrington book to see the one he built for Lindley. That one has nylon frets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2008
  3. demiruyar

    demiruyar Member

    Messages:
    444
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    Turkey,Istanbul
    The real name of the instrument is called Baglama.Saz is used for the general term for Turkish based musical intruments.

    The classic baglama comes in 2 lenghts.
    Kisa sap:Shorter neck diffent tuning
    Uzun sap:Longer neck diffrent tuning

    Electric baglamas use very hot output pickups such as the dimarzio x2n.And in my opinion they sound horrible:) I prefer the acoustic baglama.

    I used to play them but not anymore:(

    The website that you have posted is not a very good company.As a Turkish citizen I wouldnt advise you to buy from this website.

    Straight from wiki:

    The bağlama, sometimes referred to as a saz or a member of the saz family, is a Turkish instrument that is fundamental in Turkish folk music. Its name literally translates to "something that is tied up." It is a stringed instrument consisting of 7 strings divided into groups of 2, 2, and 3. These groups of strings can be tuned to different combinations, each corresponding to a different system.
    The bağlama is believed to be a synthesis of historical musical instruments in Central Asia and pre-Turkish Anatolia. It is the most commonly used string folk instrument in Turkey, and it takes different names according to the region it's found in and its size: Bağlama, Divan Sazı, Bozuk, Çöğür, Kopuz Irızva, Cura, Tambura, etc.
    The cura is the smallest member of the bağlama family, with the highest-pitched sound. One size larger than the cura is the tambura, which is tuned an octave lower than the cura. The Divan sazı is the largest instrument in the family and is tuned one octave lower than the tambura. The bağlama has three main parts, called tekne (the bowl); göğüs (sounding board); and sap (neck). The tekne is generally made from mulberry wood but may also be made of juniper, beech, spruce, or walnut. The göğüs is made from spruce, and the sap section from beech or juniper. The tuning pegs are known as burgu (literally screw). Frets are tied to the tekne with fishing line, which allows them to be adjusted. The bağlama is usually played with a tezene (similar to a guitar pick) and is made from cherrywood bark or plastic. In some regions, it is played with the fingers in a style known as Şelpe or Şerpe. There are three string groups, or courses, on the bağlama, with strings double or tripled. These string groups can be tuned in a variety of ways, known as düzen. For the bağlama düzeni, the most common tuning, the courses are tuned from top downward, A-G-D. Some other düzens are Kara Düzen (C-G-D), Misket Düzeni (A-D-F), Müstezat (A-D-F), Abdal Düzeni, and Rast Düzeni. There are also electronic bağlamas, which can be connected to an amplifier. These can have either single or double pickups.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baglama
     
  4. demiruyar

    demiruyar Member

    Messages:
    444
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    Turkey,Istanbul
  5. dr.morton

    dr.morton Member

    Messages:
    1,050
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Check out Alex Oriental Experience.
    Like the name suggests, they use this instrument (and others) for a sort of Hendrix sound.
    It's an early 80s live album that made them fameous for a short while.
     
  6. r_cressw

    r_cressw Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Location:
    NYC/CT
    That first video was awesome! Crazy modal stuff for sure... Makes me wonder what kind of applications that thing could have within Western music (and not just in the hippy-trippy way, I'm definitely imagining some heavy metal saz! :D)
     
  7. Guitarpentry

    Guitarpentry Member

    Messages:
    522
    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca

    Wow! Love that first clip, the rest are kinda CHEEZE in my book! I think I now understand what you're saying about the acoustic vs. electric...thx for the tip.

    Being a restricted (retarded?) American, I'm not hip to this instrument at all but know I'd love the ability to plug one into my amp at some point.

    Demiruyar....can you recommend a good place to order one from?

    METAL baglama capabilities.....YUMMMM....that's exactly where my mind was going........Pickups might be nice??
     
  8. Guitarpentry

    Guitarpentry Member

    Messages:
    522
    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
  9. demiruyar

    demiruyar Member

    Messages:
    444
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    Turkey,Istanbul
  10. dr.morton

    dr.morton Member

    Messages:
    1,050
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Another interesting music project is DOLAPDERE - BIG GANG
    A turkish band which covers international top hits with mostly turkish instruments.
     
  11. dharmafool

    dharmafool Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    [​IMG]
    One fine day in 1998 I wandered into the lutherie studio of Ilyas Tekkin in the old nightclub district of Istanbul. Before I knew it I had an oud in my lap. That's Ilyas playing the duduk.


    [​IMG]
    Then I asked Ilyas about the baglamas, as I wasn't bonding too well with the oud. Ilyas handed me one of his upmarket baglamas. A flimsy plastic pick he gave me was shaped like a collar stay and embossed with “Elvis.” Now I was cookin' with gas!


    [​IMG]
    The old man, right, was a veteran performer who played many traditional Turkish instruments. After doing a song with Ilyas he gave me an impromptu lesson on baglama. That's Pamela, my former paramour, center. She bought me the baglama the old man is playing. Ilyas is on the left.


    [​IMG]
    I later asked if I could try out a kanun, because I loved the kanun sound. Ilyas pulled out a used specimen, tuned it up and let me go at it. The old man was eager to hear what I could do. He quickly found out I couldn't do anything. The kanun's ergonomics were difficult for me. Right, an American drummer from Oakland dropped in. He was fascinated with all the traditional stringed instruments. Unlike all the other music stores I saw in the city, Ilyas had only one electric baglama, seen hanging above his head -- a 2-pickup tone monster!
     
  12. Kalalau Hiker

    Kalalau Hiker Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,589
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Location:
    The Outskirts of Infinity ...aka Philly burbs.
    great thread
    thx Guitarpentry

    I saw Niyaz here last year - they are great in concert - love them. good people too!

    ILOVE santoor / saz/ Turkish music in gen since 70's

    in 80's got into Omar Faruk Tekbilek / Kerdsi Erguner stuff via the Brian Keane soundtrack for Sulaiman the Magnificent doc on PBS - 4 great albums resulted and are all highly recommended

    Beyond the Sky is my fav - you can hear here :
    http://www.last.fm/music/Brian%2BKeane%2B%2526%2BOmar%2BFaruk%2BTekbilek

    I have 2 saz or I guess baglamas... got in 70s - used to play em a lot.... that I never play as both have bridges broken.

    this is inspiring me to get with local bud Bill Koutsouros in Animus and get parts to fix them!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2apZKzI4WjM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y62MEe5fXiE&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssEldHpcTm8&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul6DGSqf8tM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0-CR_RFftA

    http://www.animusmusic.com/

    thx for the thread!

    I am going to look for an electric one on ebay.

    Demiruyar - isn't there another thread here re Turkish music

    any ebay stores you'd recommen?

    Bob

    btw - RICH :
    Animus

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    Fri. Nov. 7th, 5pm @ The Philadelphia Art Museum, Art After 5 Event ~ Mediterranean Night... More TBA.
    [/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2008
  13. demiruyar

    demiruyar Member

    Messages:
    444
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    Turkey,Istanbul
    Would you like me to send you some maple bridges? Pm me your adress and I will ship it out to you.
     
  14. Kalalau Hiker

    Kalalau Hiker Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,589
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Location:
    The Outskirts of Infinity ...aka Philly burbs.
    wow - thanks so much for the generous offer Demiruyar!

    Will do!

    not sure if I like the playing here so much - but a cool looking baglama like instrument
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GLPy-QrfNY

    this guy is pretty good at faux ney sounds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3pewohhs3g&feature=related

    the real stuff
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9M6NfbQAeQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a2SCpuPIdg

    this kanoon guy is awesome!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIIvdbHm0j0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmvKQ0fmBdU

    enjoy!
     
  15. slackandsteel

    slackandsteel Member

    Messages:
    882
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    I've been playing baglama saz now for a couple years. I own a long neck, short neck, cura and a "Cumbus" saz. There's very little in the way of instruction in English but Youtube has been a great help.

    By the way, the link you provided is to Haluk Eraydin's shop. He actually did make some nice instruments (my shortneck was made by Haluk) but he died earlier this year. I'm not sure what the state of the business is. His son my be running it. Most sazes you can get in this country are pretty bad. They are mass produced for the tourist market and export. The one place I know of that you can get a quality instrument is from these folks:

    http://touchtheearth.com/saz.htm

    We also have a saz tribe on http:tribe.net where we exchange info etc.

    Feel free to PM me if you have any questions!

    PS The song "High Noon At The Oasis" at my soundclick link below is played with a cumbus saz. The cumbus saz has a metal body and skin top like a banjo.
     
  16. slackandsteel

    slackandsteel Member

    Messages:
    882
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
  17. bmutlu

    bmutlu Member

    Messages:
    504
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
  18. GuitaristMan

    GuitaristMan Member

    Messages:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
  19. Guitarpentry

    Guitarpentry Member

    Messages:
    522
    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
  20. TDJMB

    TDJMB Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,117
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Location:
    East Coast
    You might also check out Tony Geballe's saz playing with the Trey Gunn Band.
     

Share This Page