1. The Gear Page is run by musicians for musicians. We listen, we learn and if we misstep we are not afraid to do the right thing. We proposed some changes to the Emporiums. Based on feedback from members, we have decided to not go ahead with those changes. However, it has also highlighted that we need some community input into what is working and what is not working for members here. Primarily focused on the Emporiums, we'd like input on your thoughts about TGP and how things work in the Emporiums for you and how you'd improve them. The discussion thread on the is here!

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Emporium Input and Brainstorming

Discussion in 'Interactive Administrator Threads' started by Scott Peterson, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Administrator Staff Member

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    The Gear Page is run by musicians for musicians. We listen, we learn and if we misstep we are not afraid to do the right thing.

    We proposed some changes to the Emporiums. Based on feedback from members, we have decided to not go ahead with those changes.

    However, it has also highlighted that we need some community input into what is working and what is not working for members here. Primarily focused on the Emporiums, we'd like input on your thoughts about TGP and how things work in the Emporiums for you and how you'd improve them.

    I cannot promise that we will or will not adapt any of the suggestions but we'd love input from members that buy and sell here what they'd like to see.
     
  2. WBellman

    WBellman Supporting Member

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    My only gripe, and it's really nobody's fault except for the used market itself, is that new FS/FT postings get buried in the weeds so quickly. Sometimes in a matter of only a couple of hours on active days. Really no fix for this though.
     
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  3. zztomato

    zztomato Supporting Member

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    My one problem with those that sell in the the emporiums is the practice of asking the buyer to add the Paypal fee if they want to use it. The outlawing of asking for "paypal gift" helped but did not eliminate the requests for fees to be paid by the buyer.
    It's pretty simple. 99% of all transactions are by paypal. If you accept a payment by paypal, then you are using the service and you should pay the fee. When you then buy something, you don't have to pay the fee. We all buy and sell stuff. It is entirely equitable to operate with that simple rule.
     
  4. justin

    justin Gold Supporting Member

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    Id like it if bumps were one per calendar day instead of 24 hours apart. That way I could bump at different times of the day without having skip a day if, for example, I change from evening to morning. Maybe it's a software issue. A way to post pictures directly from my phone or computer without having to use a third party service would be great. Reverb is easy this way. I know this also may be a software limitation.
     
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  5. calfzilla

    calfzilla Cynical Hack Silver Supporting Member

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    I think the emporium works fine the way it is. You can re-order what you see with the filters or use the search function to help locate what you're looking for.

    I will say I did like the idea of having a separate forum for "power sellers", however that would end up being defined. There seem to be plenty of small companies on here that really don't do a huge volume of selling in general, let alone on TGP, that have ponied up for the Vendor tag. Then there are larger companies or "power sellers" that do an awful lot of transactions on here/have much larger businesses that aren't tagged as vendors. Not sure how the vendor/power seller tag is/would be enforced, but it could help keep the emporiums a little cleaner. It might also help increase traffic in the builder/retailer/power seller area if more members are forced to post wares there.

    You can just reorganize the emporium by "start date" so the newest listings stay at the top. Bumps don't affect the start date.
     
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  6. Seance

    Seance Member

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    With people seeking specific pieces of gear they are going to use the search function.

    For more "GAS"-related perusing and window-shopping perhaps the fact that day-old posts
    get pushed back is "harmful" in terms of the potential for an item to sell.

    There are other outlets for gear sales. I think that an Emporium "ad" just linking to a
    Reverb store isn't cool. But I imagine that charging members per Emporium ad or
    trying to get a percentage on each sale are all things that would lead people to post
    elsewhere.

    I like the system of "reviews" for transactions. The fact that there is a history of how
    long a person has been a member at TGP and their post history can give a level of
    confidence with Emporium purchases. I think TGP has to evaluate what it has created
    (in the Emporium and throughout the forum) and decide how best to protect that and
    grow that as opposed to thinking about how to transform it into something it isn't.
    Such efforts will likely just drive away the user base and lead them elsewhere.

    Asking sellers to be supporting members or vendors or whatever seems fine.
    But if TGP tries to get buyers to be supporting members before being able to
    purchase, then the system isn't going to be competitive with online gear options.
     
    el capitan, 5cr33nager and pdodge77 like this.
  7. Tone Loco

    Tone Loco Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks, in my years here I never thought to try to sort by columns like that!
     
  8. Chuckracer

    Chuckracer Supporting Member

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    I did not know that but now that I do, I think they are fine just as they are. I agree with disliking ads that are not much more than a price and a link to Reverb.
     
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  9. nbessie1

    nbessie1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Am I the first to comment on this thread? (I'm sure that will change almost immediately!).

    I love TGP and it is invaluable to me both for general information on, and opinions about, all things gear (my lifelong obsession!).

    TGP is also really useful for buying and selling gear because TGP-ers are generally a much more serious, well-informed and honorable population.

    The only thing I would like to see change (back) here is the ability of TGP sellers to offer using PayPal "gift" as payment option on their For Sale threads.
    I know that that might be considered to have some risk attached (not that I thought that PayPal "buyer protection" was all that goodanyway) but, given some buyer/seller pre-sale conversation, I almost always think that it's possible to get a feel for whether using PayPal gift as a buyer is inside your comfort zone or not with an individual seller (and, if I don't get a strong feeling like that, I just use "regular" PayPal..:)
    The only reason(s) I suggest this change (back) is because: 1) I've used PayPal gift as both a seller and a buyer on many, many occasions without bad incident and 2) that 3% swing can very often make the difference between a deal working out or not (3% might seem small, but it adds up in a deal involving several thousand dollars).

    The point is that I, as a seller, would like to be able to offer using PayPal gift as an additional pricing option (of course, I have no problem if a buyer prefers to use "regular" PayPal...the item just ends up costing them a bit more).

    As a buyer, I use PayPal gift almost exclusively and it really works for me (my general feeling that, if I trust you enough to buy a $5000 guitar from you in the first place, I probably trust you enough to pay you with PayPal gift...that's just my take on it but I've had really great experiences both on and off of TGP with that approach).

    Wait!...before you blast me with contradictions; this is just my take on it based on what works for me!

    :)
     
  10. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    This may be an easy suggestion to brush aside but I say keep it simple. People will want you to create a rule to eliminate anything and everything that annoys them no matter how trivial. I say let people transact as they see fit, so long as it isn’t a scam or a con. If there’s something about the way an ad is posted that I don’t like, I’ll trust my instincts and move on to the next one. We all understand that all transactions here are at your own risk. We are all here because by in large we feel better about this familiar community of guitar nut-jobs than we do about all the other nut-jobs out on the internet. :)

    I guess I’m in the camp that says it ain’t broke.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  11. coltonius

    coltonius Señor Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Agreed. Reverb doesn't post "the seller's pocket price", I don't think sellers in the Emporium should be allowed to either. Here's an example:

    Price for XYZ pedal is $90 in my pocket. Add $9 for shipping and 3.5% PayPal fees on top of that.

    The ad should say,

    Price for XYZ pedal is $103 shipped if you use PayPal, $100 shipped if you use Venmo, cashiers check, et al.

    Breaking apart the shipping and fees seems like a used car sales tactic.
     
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  12. nbessie1

    nbessie1 Silver Supporting Member

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    From a post above:
    "I agree with disliking ads that are not much more than a price and a link to Reverb"

    1+
     
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  13. riffmeister

    riffmeister Gold Supporting Member

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    I haven't used the Emporium in a while, but when I was using them, one thing that bothered me was some people were creating individual ads when selling multiple items of the same type instead of putting them all in one ad. For example if someone had three amps to sell, they'd create three individual ads, one for each amp, rather than putting them all in one ad. Keeping them all in one ad would 'take up less space' overall and and especially when it comes time to bump.
     
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  14. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    One thing that the mods really liked about one item per ad is that it effectively solves the issue of policing "businesses" in the emporia. The amount of time and effort spent debating with people about their potential commercial status is not sustainable. The mods and high-volume sellers get frustrated and there are still a lot of alleged businesses selling in the non-commercial section. Frankly, the staff is pretty burned out on dealing with these alleged businesses and the one-item policy was seen as a way to get those sellers where we think the membership wanted them, but without the arguing.

    Keep in mind that retaining the multi-ad policy will likely come with less policing of business participation in the emporia. There's no free lunch.
     
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  15. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    It's a software limitation.
     
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  16. calfzilla

    calfzilla Cynical Hack Silver Supporting Member

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    There’s no rule against offering to buy using PPG. There’s just the rule against asking for it. At least that’s the way I remember the rule being written.
     
  17. coltonius

    coltonius Señor Member Silver Supporting Member

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    I'd rather see one well-organized and thoughtfully laid out ad than 16. Can y'all add a thread tag that denotes a power ad? So instead of "For Sale" or "FS/FT" they could have a designation like "Power Listing" for ads which contain more than a set number of individual items?
     
  18. MoarGear

    MoarGear Member

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    Respectfully-

    Please consider making it impossible to delete the advertised price for each item once sold. Hiding the truth and facts regarding market values is never a good or honorable thing to do.

    And, having one pedal per FS thread is the best idea to come along in ages. Please make this happen, stat.

    Thank you.
     
  19. Hallogallo

    Hallogallo Member

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    The Mods are not going to let TGP be party or complicit in breaking Paypal's user agreement.
    If you use their service, you need to pay their fees.
     
    el capitan, mojah, texasdave and 14 others like this.
  20. Hugo Da Rosa

    Hugo Da Rosa Silver Supporting Member

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    I probably don't know enough about the issue to really provide valid input, but had an idea and thought I'd share. If the issue is largely centered around individuals not appropriately posting in the correct emporiums because of their individual/business status, what if a up/down vote system much like Reddit was employed, and mods wouldn't get involved in such matters unless enough down votes trigger a concern? Perhaps use this as a means to allow the community to help and lighten some of the load for mods?

    That said, I work in the software engineering space, so this almost certainly would pose some software challenges. But just thought I'd share.
     
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