Ethics of selling guitars with Floyd Rose

Hoghat

Member
Messages
28
Honestly I kinda get what the OP is saying. I was one of those kids back in the day before the internet was a thing... my parents wanted to buy me an electric guitar for Christmas (I had only played acoustic up to that point) and asked the guy at the music store giving me lessons to ask me what guitar I liked all non-chalantly so they could surprise me with it. Of course I picked this guitar that was cool looking with no clue about it otherwise. I had no idea what a Floyd Rose even was. For the first 6 months or so, no problem because I didn't know how to even change the strings so the music store did it for me before my lessons. It wasn't until after I quit taking lessons and I tried to change my own strings that I realized it was a lot more complicated than my acoustic. I had no internet, no idea that there was adjustable springs inside of that thing, too young to drive myself to the music store across town and too embarrassed to tell my parents I broke the guitar they gave me... I just spent forever trying tune and retune every string 30 times until the tail was maxed out. I think I lucked out and bought the gauge of strings it was set up for every other time I changed strings... so it always seemed super random and I never figured out what the deal was until years after sold that guitar out of frustration and swore to never get another Floyd Rose again. 30 years and the internet later I still immediately skip over looking further at a guitar if it has a FR on it.

That being said, I wouldn't call it unethical to sell them the guitar. Whenever I've heard of somebody buying a kid a new guitar I always tell them to watch out for Floyd Rose stuff and be prepared for more involved string changes. I personally wouldn't buy a new kid a FR guitar just because I still hate them to this day, even though I know how they work now. I think it would have been nice if my instructor had taught me how to change the strings and such but he was a 80's super shredder and probably just didn't think about me not knowing that stuff. Kids today could figure out the answers to their problem on the web in 30 minutes anyway, so I don't think it's that big of a deal now.
 

Whiskey N Beans

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,071
Yeah. Nope. This is so much BS. Who cares and who ever even wants the discount that would go with a FR equipped guitar. Might as well take up the Theramin
 

DanSimon

Member
Messages
435
fyi, the only US floyds are the ones Floyd made out of his garage, after which production moved to Japan (Fernandes) to Schaller (Germany) to Korea (1000) and China (special) and the original Ibanez Edge was great, only downside was that as it was fully cast that if you dropped it , it could break , but in short there are no US made floyds today

well, you kinda contradicted yourself. I'm sure you know more about the production situation than I do, but if he makes them in his garage, there can't be none. Either way, I think mine is US made, from early 2000s. may not be but I guess my main point was, there's a legit, official Floyd Rose. I believe it's way better than licensed models.
& if that's your experience with the edge trem, I believe you, but between me & 3 of my friends, none of the 4 edge trems reliably held the tuning in place. u could work with the guitar still, but the Floyd did not perform as intended. did u actually own 1 of these Ibanez, & use the bar while trying 2 maintain tuning with a live band?
 

ExpatZ

Member
Messages
159
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?
It's a shame you don't know how to work with them.
Changing strings it NOT difficult, just different.
Mine is never out of tune, no more so than any other guitar I own and maintain.
I play any lick I want.
And there are plenty of ways to block the bridge for a quick alternate tuning session.

Sorry you hate them, seems like such an unnecessary self imposed limitation on your part.
 

Beaglen

Member
Messages
3
I bought a Floyd equipped Charvel for the first time a year ago, after playing for over 30 years, and it has become my go to guitar for almost everything. I'm amazed at how versatile it is. Never going back. So the idea that they are limited is just silly. Everything has a learning curve. The first guitar I had with jumbo frets drove me nuts until I adjusted my technique. My very first guitar had single coils but I managed to make it work for what I wanted. Learn to play the one you've got.
 

homerayvaughan

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,909
I don’t agree with most of this.

Changing strings is hard only if it’s recessed and floating. I never set mine up that way. I was a VH guy, he put Floyd Rose on the map. His was decked.
Tuning- same as above
Licks? How’s it hard to learn a lick with a Floyd?
Alternate tunings - the only alternate tuning most use with one is drop D, which VH developed a solution.

They aren’t for everyone but there’s benefits for certain styles. Not a solution for all.
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?
 

zcostilla

Member
Messages
180
A five minute discussion with a knowledgeable tech would've straitened you out, even over the phone. I asked John Suhr a question over the phone when he was still at Rudy's in NYC, while I was in Western PA. Anyone who lives within 2hrs drive of a major city needs to go talk to a good tech. Today, you can even page @walterw & he'll square you away.
Or... maybe I realized from that experience that I’m not a shredder and my style of music doesn’t even require me to use a tremolo. I’ve always been happy with a Les Paul Special and a Tele-style guitar. I’m about to build a custom parlor guitar with a 24.75“ neck, vintage tele bridge and bridge pickup, and an AlNiCo 2 Firebird pickup in the neck.

Everyone has biases. Mine are that I realize that I don’t really need any kind of tremolo. Yours seem to be that the Floyd Rose is the only kind to use. I admit my biases. Can you?
 

vds5000

Member
Messages
2,265
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?

No less ethical than Home Depot selling a chainsaw to a someone who isn't a lumberjack or GM selling a Corvette to someone who isn't a race car driver.

No one is putting a gun to the head of a buyer making them buy something they don't want.
 

rani

Member
Messages
8
I build and sell guitars....when i have one to sell that has a FR and a newbie is interested in it....even if they offered me double the price, i would try to dissuade them from buying it. Of course my small business is on a personal level with the buyers....not an impersonal corporation.
 

Serious

Member
Messages
3
I build and sell guitars....when i have one to sell that has a FR and a newbie is interested in it....even if they offered me double the price, i would try to dissuade them from buying it. Of course my small business is on a personal level with the buyers....not an impersonal corporation.

You build and sell guitars and you can't tell someone they need an Allan key and some wire snips? Unbelievable. Even if they offer you double the price? Give me a break.
 

Steve2112

Member
Messages
61
Oy.
The question boils down to what would you recommend to a raw beginner i.e. one who has no clue and no mentor?
Many of you have totally lost touch with that market segment and perhaps were never in that position yourself.
That YOU could jump in eagerly and learn does not reflect the average kid/person dipping his/her toe into guitar playing.
Keep it simple.
No trem. Hardtail only.
There is plenty of testimony from techs' observation of mis-adjustment and from players who had trouble coping, and threads here (TGP) with all sorts of problems related to the niggles trem equipped guitars.
Relieve beginners of this potential burden with a thoughtful recommendation
Why the opposition?
It is taking nothing away from you.

The "opposition"....is idiotic way the OP framed your rearranged question. Most stores certainly would recommend a cheaper hard tail for beginners.

But if a beginner wanted a floyd...is it "ethical" to talk him or her out of it? And if they wante done...here is how I would handle the "opposition" to it:

1- how difficult it is to change the strings

It's not very difficult at all. Here is a tool to put behind the floyd so that it doesn't sink backward. You will essentially turn it into a hard tail. You can also use something like disposable lighter with all the metal stripped off.
Completely remove the locking nut parts. Set them in a safe place and return them to the same positions you removed them from.
Bend the wound strings a little bit before you cut the end off. the bend portion will fit right into the lock

2 - how frustrating it is to tune

It's not frustrating at all. Here are some tricks:

with new strings....tune sharp a little bit. As you tune the other strings, the previous ones will fall back into tune. Be sure to stretch well. Keep the locking nut loose overnight if possible. Be sure to recheck and adjust the microtuners a bit high...the strings will stretch a little bit and that will leave room to tune up.

3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn

What a complete LIE this is! There are NONE ZERO NADA licks that you can't play on a floyd. As a matter of fact...you will end up doing MORE licks with a floyd than hardtail.

4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

So here...the op is worried about "keeping things simple"....yet as already suggesting alternate tunings? It's a valid point...but I would suggest a beginner learn in standard tuning no matter what kind of guitar.

So while yes....you are correct...recommend the hardtail. But also show them the floyd to...and let them decide what they want.
 

robertkoa

Member
Messages
4,218
You can take your favorite Guitarist in any genre and he will sound like an amateur if he is handicapped by an out of tune , unstable Guitar.
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?

I think a young or inexperienced Player should be warned or his parents - sure .



I was trying to find a Classical Guitar with a Floyd...lol.
But was serious about the warning.
 

RR Student

Member
Messages
10
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?
I have to be honest here. My Floyd equipped Strats have never had an issue with tuning or really anything. And stringing them up, after you get the hang of it, is not a big deal. The thing I really love about them is that with a locking nut, they pretty much don't go out of tune at all, and the knobs on on the bridge really make it easy to get it perfectly there when you do have to tune it.
 
Messages
33
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?
I see a lot of novices ending up with an electric guitar with a Floyd Rose. There is no shortage of guitsrs with a Floyd on the market. And a lot of novices buy those guitars because the think they look cool, or look like they are better equipped, etc...

What none of those novices realize is:

1 - how difficult it is to change the strings
2 - how frustrating it is to tune
3 - that it is impossible to actually play a lot of the licks they most likely want to learn
4 - that there's no practical way to venture into alternate tunings
and the list goes on

Clearly a Floyd Rose equipped guitar cannot be used to play a wide range of music across the board.

So, is it even ethical to sell such guitars to people who clearly don't know what they are getting into?
The Floyd Rose bridges are just like any other gear you have never used before. Even seasoned players will go through a learning curve to become proficient when using one. All tremelo bridges require getting used to in regards to setting up - tuning - re-stringing etc.. As far as ethics are concerned, would you blame the seller of a Corvette if the buyer didn't become acclimated with the car before he took it out and wrecked it ? Only if you put the time in to the Floyd, will you reap the rewaRDS THAT COME WITH ONE !
 

123erinnc

Member
Messages
8
I actually always thought this was a friendly forum. But with all the hostility being expressed over a simple question I can see how may trolls are in the closet, until the closet door pops open.

And one piece of advise to you... If you want a thread to die off, don't post any replies in it.
No kidding man. Your post was great food for thought and the basis of a good discussion. I was blown away by how easily people were triggered. The name calling and anger. I hope this doesn’t discourage you or anyone else from posting great thoughts, without the fear of being attacked by the anger mob.
 

Steve2112

Member
Messages
61
No kidding man. Your post was great food for thought and the basis of a good discussion. I was blown away by how easily people were triggered. The name calling and anger. I hope this doesn’t discourage you or anyone else from posting great thoughts, without the fear of being attacked by the anger mob.
That's odd. I found it extremely ignorant.

It's "impossible to play all the licks on a Floyd"? It could be the most ridiculous thing I have read on the internet. Ever.

The only thing that MIGHT have made SOME sense was the alternate tunings....except the OP was objecting to making things too complicated with a floyd....then suggesting alternate tunings?

String changing and tuning are just about as easy as a hardtail....with a few tips...that can be found easily these days.

Ever change a string on a Bixby? Good times there!

There are all kinds of technical issues on ALL guitars and amps. From how many wraps on the string peg to a broken pickup to a warped neck and burned out tube. We don't advise people not try guitar because of them. We encourage them to learn how to identify and deal with them. Floyd is no exception and can offer an exciting aspect of playing guitar.

Sorry if it offends you ...but a very silly and ignorantly perspective. From here.

I'd hazard to guess the motivation for this thread had nothing to do with guidance for a beginner.
 

les_paul

Member
Messages
1,180
When I worked music retail the number one question to anyone buying a guitar with a Floyd: Have you ever owned a guitar with a double locking tremolo? If they answered "no" I tried to prep them. I dissuaded many beginners but several of them came back after I showed them how to at least restring them. I went through the setup process and explained it could take some time.

It probably got the store more money for setups in the end. Some people wanted the guitar no matter what and as long as we were there to set it up it was ok.
 




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