EV ELX18P subs

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by tremonti, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    Just bought these and the matching powered EV ZLX12P tops. Run QSC touchmix 16 board. Love the tops and the board. Issue: one sub seems blown and farts out like wood deck vibrating. Other has limiter light always on. I run the level full up on the powered sub and then mix gain structure and volume from board. Nothing clipping and tips are set to crossover unit to the spec stated good for.

    Are these subs bad? Meaning should I get something more powerful? Why the limiter on always? Don't feel I should not be able to run these wide open. 4 piece cover band and not my first rodeo mixing sound.
     
  2. fisticuffs

    fisticuffs Member

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    Subs could be bad, you could be clipping the input on the subs. The limiter light is fine to come on and blink occasionally but if it's constant there's too much signal. Those subs should be plenty paired with those tops. Reduce your output to the subs. The level on the sub is only for the sub maybe start that at 12 O'Clock instead of dimed.
     
  3. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    This makes no sense. Input clipping so reduce the output of sub making less headroom?!?! I understand input and output. But I fail to see why this would work or be an issue?
     
  4. Uncle Pat

    Uncle Pat Member

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    Scratched my head on that one too. Bet it's a typo?
     
  5. fisticuffs

    fisticuffs Member

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    Reduce the amount of output from your mixer. Send your subs less signal. The gain structure between your board and sub could be your problem.

    Otherwise, bad subs? We've sold hundreds of these subs, and I only see a handful that have come back for any reason at all.
     
  6. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    The tops(Zlx12p's) feed the bottom and are crossed over for that exact sub(has different hz to cross at and the a ELX18P one that I use). Have the tops at unity center and the gain on my board is set correctly.

    Not sure how to get output I want, without clipping input on sub? Confused?
     
  7. Stefenator

    Stefenator Member

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    Tremonti,

    Your best bet is to run Aux Fed Subs...

    Use the TM16 filters and not only chop off everything above, but also everything BELOW what your sub is capable of. Depending on the way you run your tops, you might cut off everything below 100hz that goes to the tops, so cut off everything above 100hz that is going to the sub. In addition, you should cutoff everything below 40hz (ELX118Ps can go down to 32hz, so you could cutoff everything below that, but 40 should be low enough).

    The reason is, if you end up with any frequencies below what the sub can produce going to the sub, the speaker will "try" reproduce anyway ends up making the sub work harder than it needs to. The subs will work a lot more efficiently by sending them only the frequencies they are actually able to reproduce.

    So send the tops the signal coming out of the mains on the TM16 and use the filters to chop off everything below 100hz. Then, use one of the Auxes to send your subs a very specific signal that has everything below 40hz and everything above 100hz chopped off.

    This will allow you to control how much signal you are sending to the subs separate from what you send to the tops. Make sure you go into that aux and all the channels you want to send to the sub (bass, kick, floor tom).

    I think what Fisticuffs was saying (fisticuffs, please correct me if I'm wrong) was that setting your subs for 12 o'clock should be plenty loud enough for most gigs. You should not need to run them wide open like that. I use Yamaha subs and tops, but I never run them higher than 12 o'clock and never have a problem with volume OR clipping.

    YMMV

    I hope this helps,

    Steph
     
  8. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    I'm not sure it matters, however, on pg. 13 on the ZLX owner's manual, it shows how to use the ELX18P's with the ZLX12P's. It shows the signal from the mixer going to the sub/s 1st, then from the subs to the ZLX tops.

    You stated that you have the tops hooked up to the mixer 1st, then you're feeding the subs from the ZLX tops. This is not the way EV recommends hooking those up. It MAY be that by sending the signal to the ZLX's 1st, the signal gain structure is increased, thereby sending a clipped signal to the sub/s. It also should be noted the the ELX subs have a factory preset crossover point at 100 hz. So you need to use that same crossover point when setting the DSP on the ZLX speakers.

    Try hooking up the speakers the way EV recommends and see if that helps at all.
     
  9. willie k

    willie k Silver Supporting Member

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    This. In addition, when I ran QSC K10s & KW181 I kept them dimmed. The EV seems to run differently. I use the ETX series and run them around +4Db. Aux fed subs, no issues.
     
  10. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    My bad. Meant the tops are zlx 12p's. So you plug into the top and run to bottom. I have it correct.
     
  11. Stefenator

    Stefenator Member

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    Actually, (Unfortunately) you don't...

    This picture is straight from the EV ZLX manual (page 13), which clearly shows that the signal should go from the mixer, to the subs and then to the tops.

    [​IMG]

    On page 10, it also states that you want to make sure to set the DSP Sub section to (in your case) ELX118P:

    Sub
    The Sub menu is used to configure the presence of a subwoofer and its cross-over frequency. Select the OFF position if no
    subwoofers are used with the system. Select the applicable cross-over frequency (80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, or ELX118P ) if a
    subwoofer is used with the system. The default selection is OFF.

    I hope this helps. If it were me, I would still run Aux Fed Subs, but this configuration should work...

    Rock on,

    Steph
     
  12. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    This makes zero sense. How does the crossover occur after the sub? Meaning the sub has nothing telling it to cut any signal? Please explain. I do see what you mean though.
     
  13. SinglecutGuy

    SinglecutGuy Supporting Member

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    The output of the sub sends the signal to the tops which have the built in high pass filter. The input of the sub receives the full range signal and applies a low pass filter.

    The input of the subwoofer (ELX18P) splits the signal into two signal chains. One of those chains is sent to a low pass filter (which eliminates the high frequencies) which is then sent to the amplifier in the subwoofer, which feeds the woofer, to give you the low frequency output. The second chain is sent to the output of the subwoofer (which has not hit the low pass filter in the sub, so it is full range), which you send to your tops, which then hits a high pass filter in the built in DSP of the 12P.

    Think of it as two signal chains once it hits your input on the sub. One goes into the sub, the other is sent immediately back out to the output jack so you can send it to your tops unaffected by any filters.


    I own 2xELX18P's and 2xZLX15P's as my PA for my band :) (Also sell this stuff for a living ;) )
     
  14. orogeny

    orogeny Supporting Member

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  15. zekmoe

    zekmoe Member

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    Yea, it's backwards. Mixer > Sub > Tops
     
  16. ercguitar

    ercguitar Supporting Member

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    Well, looks like you guys beat me to it. Subs first... :)
     
  17. ceeinwa

    ceeinwa Member

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    There's a video released by EV on youtube (of course I can't find the link right meow) that details the setup in question.

    mono mains w/sub

    mixer L out > sub in
    sub out > main L in
    main L out > main R in
     
  18. Stefenator

    Stefenator Member

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    If you look at the the OP's configuration, he has 2 subs and 2 tops, so it's:

    mixer L out > L sub in
    L sub out > main L in
    mixer R out > R sub in
    R sub out > main R in
     
  19. weshunter

    weshunter Supporting Member

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    the bottoms should feed the tops

    EDIT - everybody beat me to it
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  20. tremonti

    tremonti Member

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    Called EV. Said either way works???
     

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