Even Flow -whats the trick at nailing the groove?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by cragginshred, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. cragginshred

    cragginshred Member

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    the riff is easy but playing it to the drums without the track seems much harder. What am I missing? Is it a count thing?
     
  2. dmkz

    dmkz Member

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    Swinging 8th notes
     
  3. FenderBigot

    FenderBigot Supporting Member

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    Stone's floppy fingers!

    We are tackling that one next week. I get to play Mike's easy part. :aok
     
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  4. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Err, no.
     
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  5. dmkz

    dmkz Member

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    Chunk ka chunk ka chunk
     
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  6. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Dotted 8ths. A whole different story.
    Subdivisions in "Even Flow" (both 8ths and 16ths) are even (assuming we're talking about the same song by Pearl Jam).
     
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  7. dmkz

    dmkz Member

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    I believe the OP is asking what the secret to the groove is for the riff. If you play the notes with even dotted 8ths it will sound stiff and very lame. IMO
     
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  8. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    Not if you swing the dotted 8ths. Stone has a unique sense of rhythm IMO.
    He has a odd way of playing lousey goosey while simultaneously playing
    a tiny bit behind the beat
     
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  9. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Supporting Member

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    Got a sound sample? Kinda hard to tell you what needs to change without hearing it.
     
  10. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    There is still not even a hint of shuffled/swung 8ths in "Even Flow".

    There's no 16th shuffle, either.
     
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  11. The Captain

    The Captain Supporting Member

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    I'm gonna throw in some ideas here.
    Are you referencing the Ten album version, of any of the many live versions ? I ask this because they always play it live at a faster tempo than the album version, which I think plods a bit.
    Get the tuning right. I can't remember exactly what Stone plays it in, but it's not standard.
    Mike is hitting the wah in a regular pattern, which is sitting in behind and you have to lock in your groove with that. It might be written in even 1/8ths, but it grooves a bit too.
    Stone has steel tendons and is a beast of a rhythm player, under-appreciated by TGP, but on a par with the best of them.
    I'm not sure what transcription you are using, but this one has the timing notated and sounded out for you.
    https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/pearl-jam-even-flow-tab-s384t2

    Side-bar, my PJ Anthology arrived at home inna post a few days ago, and I'm near busting with excitement to get my hands on it.

    I had a quick look at the anthology today. STone's part is tabbed in open D. What tuning are you playing it in ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  12. QuarterTone

    QuarterTone Member

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    It is indeed a count thing. It is a 16th note based groove and the count for the main riff is the following: "One ... uh-Two-ee-and ... ee-and ... Four-ee-and-uh." I put the "...." where there are syncopated notes are. So the One lasts 3 16th notes (or a dotted eighth), the And of Two is also a dotted eighth note, and the And of Three is an eighth note.

    So you've got to get your 16th note counting and groove together. It's a great song and a great riff to work on exactly that!

    Also Gossard usually plays it in Open D but you can do it in drop D just fine.
     
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  13. cragginshred

    cragginshred Member

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    Using backing track was key over the weekend. I learned the riff then playing it with a drummer was more challenging than I thought it would be
     
  14. QuarterTone

    QuarterTone Member

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    I'd also recommend really focusing on the back beat at first. Focus on really nailing your downpick on the 2 and the 4 snare crack and that will help the rest of the bar fall into place.
     
  15. FenderBigot

    FenderBigot Supporting Member

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  16. townsend

    townsend Member

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    Here you go:
     
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  17. The Captain

    The Captain Supporting Member

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    Good question. The Songster tab says Drop d, the new Anthology I just received says open D.
    I was looking at some chatter on the PJ forum about this, and people were saying that Stone usually plays it in open D, but that it's easy enough to play in drop D.
    Personally, it's been years since I played it much and I can't honestly remember what I used. I would have been following a tab from giventowail.com, so whatever that says.
    I recall playing Mike's part by ear, in standard, avoiding the tricksty 6th string. Either way, it's a riff in D that needs the 6th string to be tuned to D, or you can't play the 2/4 descending line.
     
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  18. Poppa Stoppa

    Poppa Stoppa Member

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    It’s what Quarter Tone said. Get you picking hand going up & down in sixteenth notes. That is, every beat, your pick goes down-up-down-up. Then you work out which of the sixteenth note strums plays a note.
     
  19. Trobbins3

    Trobbins3 Silver Supporting Member

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    Mine too. I wish the print was larger, LOL

    On the recording, I believe they slowed the recording down slightly, adding to it's unique groove. It's difficult to get the tuning exact if playing along to Ten because it's slightly flat.
     
  20. The Captain

    The Captain Supporting Member

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    Yeah, the timing was altering in mastering, which changed the pitch a little, giving rise to the idea that Ed always sings 1/4 tone flat.

    I'm starting a thread on the Anthology, but for me it's a swing and a miss. I can't read a damn thing, even with my good glasses.
     

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