Eventide H8000FW - All about it... please post here.

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by italo de angelis, Nov 21, 2017.


Tags:
  1. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    [​IMG]

    All you need to know, ask, share, read, hear about this unique processor... would be nice if gathered here.
    Let's start....

    Some specs!
    -4 analog I/0
    -2 S/Pdif I/O
    -8 AES/EBU I/O channels
    -8 ADAT I/O channels
    -16 FireWire400 I/O channels
    -H8000FW also works as a PC/Mac audio interface on FW400 for direct to DAW audio recording
    -2 DSPs running separately (2 algorithms) or as a single monster one in Monolithic mode
    -24 bit/up to 96KHz audio conversion
    -Delay memory: DSP A 174 sec. (from the sampling board- addressable by delays) + 43 sec./DSP B 43 sec.
    -Sampling memory: DSP A only - 174 sec.
    -about 2000 on board presets, including tons of heritage sounds from 3000/4000/7000/Orville series
    -8 channels I/O algorithms
    -Quad and 5.1 surround algorithms
    -Open platform supporting true algorithm design/modification, using Vsigfile for Windows PC
    -On a Mac use virtualization software to run it. Works perfectly!
     
    Man with Gas likes this.
  2. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    Some extra stuff an H8000 or Orville could be configured to do:

    -a traditional mixer with channels faders and AUX Sends
    -an analog splitter
    -a digital splitter
    -an hybrid splitter
    -a SwitchBlade router for analog and digital signals
    -a time clock based relay switcher... in a conference a light or an audio beep may start flashing prompting the speaker is has 2 minutes left for his speech, after he has already spoken for... say an hour
    -a simple 4 operations calculator
    -a more advanced math calculator, with some extra operations
    -a cool "screen saver" for your studio... with technical things always working. like VU meters, moving faders and knobs... your clients will ask you about
    -a cryptation engine for your messages! Vsigfiles can be emailed with text others can't read...
    -name any parameter in any language! Doesn't need to be English
    -another cool "screen saver" with stars going on and off
    -yet another cool "screen saver" if you are willing to go mad with ASCII characters design
    -a MIDI controller sending out PCs and CCs
    -a device turning modulation sources (lfos, audio signals, etc.) into MIDI CCs... sweeping external processors parameters
    -a synthesizer
    -a MIDI notes player... even chords
    ... more...
     
    Man with Gas likes this.
  3. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    A ROUTING program for Windows and Mac is available on the Eventide website.
    What follows are a number of interesting routings, created on this small software.

    Here's a cool one...
    you have a nice mixer... 4 Aux Sends... and the H8000FW is the "only" fx box in your system.
    With this routing you run the two units in true stereo I/O, parallel routing.
    You can do A>B or B>A using the Aux Sends pots on the mixer.
    So all possibilities are covered...
    While having everything set on your guitar rig, thru analog I/Os... you also get the 2 DSPs feeding the FireWire outputs 1/2/3/4 and the dry sound(s) from analog inputs 1/2/3/4 going to FireWire outputs 5/6/7/8 too.
    So... you can play your guitar system thru your power amp and cabs while recording everything to your computer.
    That's power!

    ANALOG STEREO PARALLEL I/O and DRYs/WETs FED TO A D.A.W.

     
  4. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    This one?
    Brace yourself! Hold on... it's going to get rough.

    You have a terrific band... including this guy who is a monster at doing crazy stuff with ewhat you guys play... in realtime, by sampling and looping your playing and apply severe mayhem to that...
    You have a nice mixer with ADAT inputs and outputs...
    You are using 8 channels of ADAT as AUX SENDS to feed the 2 DSPs in parallel... on which you are running 4 STEREO fx or groups of efx... all parallel.
    And the ADAT ouputs are used as returns to your mixer....
    Your tech head friend is using a laptop and a set of units thru his digital mixer to apply "brutifulness" to what the band is playing... so gets a mix of 8 dry channels and 8 wet ones on his FireWire interface to do his job, off FireWire outs 1. Maybe he has another H8000FW and he does all the work on it... from FireWire interconnection!
    At the same time you are feeding the same kind of mix to a second DAW for recording.... off FireWire 2.
    And your friend sends HIS FireWire outputs to the same computer... for recording his brutality, along with what you guys play.

    Holy F..K!
    That's the **** I'm talking about... boys....

    TOTAL MAYHEM



    ∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆

    And one for the snob!
    Your CD player goes to the H8000 via S/Pdif....
    you are going to use DSP A to split it into 4 stereo signals and control their levels.
    These 4 stereo signals feed the ADAT outputs to a nice D/A converter... 8 channels... to distribute the stereo CD program to 4 rooms hi-fi systems in your house.
    Can't get enough of it!

    SPLIT S/PDIF to 8 ADAT
     
  5. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    Same as in the previous post... but now you have 2 CD players, running two different music programs...
    With this routing and some clever switching/mixing programming in the 2 DSPs... one can feed any of the 2 CD to 4 different rooms...
    Like CD 1 to Rooms 1 and 4 and CD 2 to Rooms 2 and 3 ... or any other combinations...
    Pretty cool!

    DUAL S/PDIF SPLIT to 4 STEREO ADAT CHANNELS
     
    Man with Gas likes this.
  6. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    Some planning ahead....

    -When thinking about ROUTINGS the H8000FW is very open, much more than anything else... but you cannot connect every I/O in all possible ways. There are some design limitations. Digital I/Os are often derived from paths common to other analog or digital I/Os so you have to always keep that in mind. Using the H8000 as an analog/digital router for other machines is only possible under the known limitations and a series of other factors... more on this as we proceed.

    -Page 24 from the User Manual for OS V5.5:

    Things to Know about Routing
    When you are ready, see The Comprehensive Input / Output Scheme for more details. Until then …
     The effects engine (the DSP section) of the H8000FW has eight inputs and outputs
    Only 8 inputs can be connected to the effects engine
    Only 8 outputs can be connected from the effects engine
    The analog inputs can only be used as input channels 1-4 (7-8 on H8000)
    The analog outputs are always connected as output channels 1-4 (7-8 on H8000)
    The AES XLR inputs can only be used as input channels 5-8 (1-8 on H8000)
    The AES XLR outputs are always connected as output channels 5-8 (1-8 on H8000)
    S/P DIF 1/2 in can replace AES 1/2 in
    S/P DIF 1/2 out is driven with the same signal as AES 1/2 out
    ADAT out can be fed from the effects engine or from the ADAT inputs
    In addition, for the H8000FW
    S/P DIF 3/4 in can replace AES 11/12 in
    S/P DIF 3/4 out is driven with the same signal as AES 11/12 out
    ADAT1-8 out can be fed from the effects engine or from the ADAT, AES11-18 or FireWire inputs
    AES11-18 out can be fed from the effects engine or from the ADAT, AES11-18 or FireWire inputs
    FireWire outputs can be fed from the effects engine or from the ADAT or AES11-18 inputs
    FireWire outputs can not be fed directly from FireWire inputs

    You may also read and read and read again "The Comprehensive Input / Output Scheme" from page 49.
    You will come back to this section many times in the years as you will face troubleshooting issues when using different routings.

    -Digital Clock Issues ! ! !
    Warning... THIS IS DANGEROUS. You can very easily blow up your speakers, headphones and even damage your ears.
    Don't play fool with it.
    When you connect several devices (H8000, PCM80, PCM81, Eclipse, MPXG2, what else?) thru digital formats you need a clock.
    Clocking thru digital audio formats (S/pdif-AES/EBU-ADAT, etc) is ok for a couple of units. More than that and you should expect issues.
    S/Pdif sucks! Plain and simple. Its not a professional standard by design and definition, it doesn't carry true 24 bit info (always truncated bits thru it) and it's never a major design in an fx processor... Quality design is more focused on AES/EBU and other professional standards.
    If you have ONE machine clocking all others in a digital nest... and those machines audio signal come back into it... you are about to face clocking issues. That's a NO NO NO... for your sanity and wallet. Trust me.
    By clock you should not consider digital audio clock, travelling thru audio cables and formats. Real clock runs on dedicated lines and connectors, called W.ord C.lock.
    That's one of those aspects putting any Eventide above all the other machines: PRO AUDIO formats.
    Notice the LEXICON PCM series don't have W.C.!
    A setup with so many machines should run digital clock from a dedicated device, like a Big Ben or similar specialized units, which will distribute a mother****ing STEADY clock to each and every unit in the system IN PARALLEL. So no "going thru" cascades like MIDI ****.
    In addition to this... the power feeds should ALL be stabilized and kept clean/steady/backedup with more dedicated gear.
    Simply put... a digital system needs a perfectly generated clock which cannot be disturbed by:
    -human accidental acts
    -power fluctuations
    -audio interferences
    -MIDI interference (the H8000FW routings can be changed via MIDI - if that happens for whatever reason, while you play... ****ing Nagasaki!)
    -poor formats (S/Pdif)
    A dedicated MASTER clock unit will provide digital clock thru W.C., AES/EBU, ADAT and S/Pdif connectors in parallel... to accomodate all units design limitations.
    This WILL get expensive! You bet.
    Always prefer the best digital format available on a device. S/Pdif or AES? Go for AES. Which will limit the connection choices on the H8000FW.

    -Routing consequences on audio
    A routing implies a specific algorithm design. An algorithm design requires the proper routing to work. Things on the H8000FW aren't the same as in most multi-channels unit.
    A very simple example? When you select MONO IN1 or 2 on Eclipse, audio is routed to both channels of stereo effects. This is not the case on the H8000.
    So... if you create external loops (send/returns) or feeds to/from external units they won't carry audio content to your whole sound design plan unless you use VSIG and create algorithms based proper I/O routings. You'll need to connect the MAIN IN/OUT docks to DSPs to run external units I/Os thru the DSPs channels. This will enable you to add their fx to your algorithms and to process their fx thru the H8000.
    This takes DSP resources. You'll need some mixing control at least for those external sources... or more. Whatever load your algorithm is putting on a DSP, it's bound to get heavier. With some algorithms you may have no juice left to add more.
    This external feed inclusion in an algorithm has to be designed in EVERY algorithm you intend to use with those external machines. So... more VSIG work right there.
     
    pangea2003 likes this.
  7. ctreitzell

    ctreitzell Member

    Messages:
    272
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Location:
    France/ UK
    Thanks for the thread, Italo :-D ...amazing possibilities with H8000.
    Just 4-6 CCs? Simultaneous modulation or static parameter routings in general? Statically speaking: Cyber Twin is stable with 18 parameters; 2101 with 10. I have been feeding about 6 simultaneous moving custom LFOs out of Reason to each CT & 2101 and it functions as expected....I will have to dig deeper to ensure my claims :)
     
  8. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    Now some... CLIPS!

    The Random Delays... finally on the H8000.

    I dedicated the day to building random delays for chorus and more advanced works.
    The idea is about randomizing the base delay values rather than applying a random modulation to it. These are two different concepts and the first is by far more complex and interesting than the second.
    A random waveform LFO is all you need to do random mod... and honestly... it never sounded that great on any and every unit I tried that.
    I much prefer applying randomization to the delay value itself, provided its interpolation works well for this kind of sounds.
    I have used an H8000 obscure and hidden module, called MULTIDELAY. This is undocumented and was very likely developed for the pedals algorithms.
    This MULTIDELAY module can be set in one of 3 different modes, as a regular MOD delay or a X-FADE delay or a REVERSE delay. It has a modulation input for LFO, but I didn't use it.
    The MOD delay mode works as a super sweet glide delay with very cool GLIDE and SMOOTH parameters, useful to create the pitch sweeps and artifacts control.
    By changing the base delay value you get pitch shifting you can fine tune with those two extra parameters.
    So... just used a bunch of control randomizers to create the classic spin & wander in these MULTIDELAY modules.
    First attempt was a simple MULTIDELAY module outputting two delay lines; this dude can send out up to 16 delay lines from a mono input! And use up to 32,5 seconds of shared delay memory.
    Really nice Random Chorus ... but getting to reverb is more interesting.
    So PLEX with 6 randomized delays...
    You get the 6 SPINs... the rate at which each delay base value is being randomized. And the 6 WANDERs... the delay values from/to the randomizers sweep times.
    The cool thing here is that I can choose the min/max random bounds for each delay, having them shifted in specific offset areas which keep the randomization musical and controlled.
    5 to 10 ms is all you need to create very nice sounding changing delays with musical pitch warbling.
    So randomization AND control of it is the key to the awe here.

    This used to be a Lexicon effect... now possible on an H76/8000 too!

    Enjoy...



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    A sound designer dream! Starts with a pad made with Eq, Reverb, breathing Reverse Crystals in quad audio. @56 sec. a mildly driven 4 bands Polyfuzz guitar adds its diffusion colors and delays in the rear channels...

    Eventide H8000 GobiGTR in Europa



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The H8000 runs as a super rig for the sounds painting guitarist. Cyber preamp, tap delays and diffusion... on to polyfuzz, reverse shifter and reverb. A full system in a box!

    Eventide H8000 Desert Oboe Poly Reverse

     
    gtrnstuff, Ryan P. and keelford like this.
  9. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    You can certainly use as many as you like... I was just giving a general advice for any unit.
    Would I do that? No.
    Murphy WILL strike!
     
  10. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    more....

    Here's is a pretty tough and mighty rig, not too big. Easy to manage... running up to 4 algortihms... large ones... and in multi-channels audio!
    The Mighty Eventide Orville and the King H8000... a lifestyle in sounds.
    This one is a quad audio clip, mixed down to stereo... unfortunately. You should listen to it on 4 speakers to realize what it really is.
    The Orville plays "Ambient Guitar 1"... the mildly pushed distortion preamp pushes a bunch of ring modulated delay taps thru a Plex module... getting the rhythm guitar part in a steady rhythmic pulse and creating nice panning movement, thanks to the frequency shifters working in asymmetrical way.
    The second Orville DSP is taking a break...
    The H8000 covers the "Europa" pad, tweaked from the original version... now running on shorter delays forward shifters, mid boost and high cut. Shorter reverb adds the space to it.
    The other H8000 DSP brings pure fuzz brutality to the party... screaming harmonics and low frequency nastyness... the "Square Tubes" crazily pushed (+37 dB gain!), eq_ed and compressed... thru 2 delay taps+feedback tap, all set to thicken the bastard... all thru a final reverb. This thing screams like an animal on fire. Bad one...
    No parallel mixer stuff for the dry sound... nope... no "nice and beautiful" rack rules here. Gtr straigth into the boxes and get all their juices to the computer.

    So it goes...

    RIGS CYBER MUSIC
     
    Man with Gas likes this.
  11. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    This will be a fun thread. My H8000FW arrived last week and I've just started with vSig last night. The setup is simply incredible. I can already tell that it's my mind that will be the limit here.

    I'm quite engaged with vSig this week, but will absolutely contribute to this.

    I'm chasing those random delays, @italo de angelis! I think this is 6 moddelays sent to a plex with c_random controlling the depth and rate. I'm just wondering if you used any diffusors in that one, as stringing up 2 diffusors and sending them into a reverb seems to make a huge difference for me on this box - more than I heard on the Eclipse, which leads me to believe that these are hard-coded values there, which are also placed before the reverb network.

    Experiments with Diffchorus have proven quite interesting. I was able to create a great new Black Hole type sound. You REALLY have to consider L/R delay times with this module...sending that into a plex might help, but might smear it out too much...

    I've also learned a lot about delay spacing. You're correct. I'm loosing way too much energy at those high delay times (249 is even too much). It seems like the best verbs are created with sub-100ms delays, but I have a lot more experimenting to do here. I didn't like sub-100ms with 24 and 32-delay verbs. Way too tight...

    The only issue I've run across so far was creating a huge 32-delay reverb that would not compile at 96k...gotta look into that as I learn more.

    Either way, I'm gonna be busy for YEARS with this f'ing awesome piece of magic...and the difference between 48k and 96k is absolutely HUGE.
     
    ctreitzell likes this.
  12. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    One other thing I've learned by example is that I have been doing high/low verbs correctly. That was really good news. Using two separate verbs (verb>verb) for high and low reverbs for a while now, instead of doing the multiplied EQ thing. I've gotten much better results this way.

    Also, the programming I've seen has been really solid. These are very complex structures with a lot of lines, math controls, values, menupages, huge monitor requirements, etc. vSig can be EXTREMELY complex if you want it to. I'm very impressed with analyzing all of this. It's good stuff.
     
    ctreitzell likes this.
  13. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    6 is gooooood. Some of the greatest reverbs were created from just handful of modulated delay lines. You really don't need to go 16-32 for effect, but it helps with density.
     
    ctreitzell likes this.
  14. Gary Ladd

    Gary Ladd Member

    Messages:
    1,519
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Location:
    Control Room
  15. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    It was about MIDI CCs....
     
    ctreitzell likes this.
  16. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa

    Try a stereo crossover spltting audio bands to 2 *parallel* reverbs, summed thru a stereo mixer....
     
    hydroquebec likes this.
  17. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa
    That's not exactly an issue. More likely an user error....
    When an algorithm isn't compiled it's either too large, which I doubt in this case, or you have exhausted one or more internal resources.

    I can compile a 32 dlys Rev_D monolithic easily here.
    What have you modified in it?
    Which message do you get from Vsig?


    More...
    I can run two Rev_D @32 dlys in a single DSP 48KHz or 4 in monolithic mode, still @ 48KHz.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  18. ctreitzell

    ctreitzell Member

    Messages:
    272
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Location:
    France/ UK
    yesh, VSig :)
    it would be nice to have some way to audition results of VSig programming other than owning the units VSig talks to...ie software emulation...which is akin to the reason I brought it up elsewhere
    just a comment
     
  19. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

    Messages:
    3,743
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bibarasse in CassoPipa

    Audition Vsig programming... how... IF one doesn't have the unit?
     
    Man with Gas likes this.

Share This Page