Eventide H8000FW - All about it... please post here.

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by italo de angelis, Nov 21, 2017.


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  1. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    Good point! I never considered looking at an older manual. I'll search for this immediately...gotta go to visit the in-laws today...better have some good reading material.

    Yup, fair enough. Best practices, man.
     
  2. markiv2290

    markiv2290 Member

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    Hi Italo,

    I have some programming experience (C++, PHP, SQL) in the engineering world, but no programming experience in the audio FX / DSP world.
    I will have a look at the manual, but maybe you can give me a few pointers.

    I have two questions for you :

    1- In general terms, how involved would it be to modify an existing algorithm so that it connects to the 4 analog external ins and the 4 analog external outs?
    Are we talking almost rewriting the whole thing from scratch? Or are we talking modifying a of couple parameters in the code, or creating brand new lines of code to "connect the dots" together ? If so, how many? 10, 100, 1000 lines ?

    2- Are there provisions in the algorithms that are identical (akin to in / out patch points) so that one can program the routing once and re-use between programs? How could one apply this to the existing patches on a do-once-apply-to-all manner (if at all possible)?

    These might be basic questions, bear with me as I'm only starting reading this beast of a manual.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  3. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Allright....
    let's make a definitive statement here:
    THERE IS NO NEED TO KNOW ANY CODING LANGUAGE OR HAVING TO DO ANYTHING RELATED TO CODING AT ALL TO DO ANYTHING ON THE H8000 AND ALL OTHER 2U EVENTIDE UNITS.
    If you are reading the manual you can't possibly find any mention to "coding" in general for the user, as a requirement.
    That's the smart thing... as a lot of coding has been put into this unit that you don't need to know it, but still you'll be able to do things that are not possible on other units... unless you have their code and know how to write new chunks. Here? No need to!

    Connecting an algorithm to the 4 analog I/Os? A 4 yrs kid can do that.
    Just add the inputs and outputs (3 and 4) to the algorithm, both on the onboard patch editor or in Vsigfile and do your connections.

    I suspect you haven't the whole routing thins clear yet.
    There is ROUTING managed outside the algorithms, from the fornt panel, where you connect any of the 2 dozens hardware inputs and outputs (analog, AES/EBU, S/Pdif, ADAT, FireWire) and there's algorithm design.
    An algorithm/preset can have a max of 8 inputs and 8 outputs. You need to set the system routing so that the number of I/Os of an algorithm make sense. There is no point in using a 5.1 algorithm (6 inputs and outputs) if the system routing is running for regular stereo I/O, with 2 inputs and 2 outputs.
    If I understand your second question, there is no need for what you ask as you will be loading stereo algorithm when you have made or pre-loaded a stereo routing for the unit, running both DSPs as stereo machines.
    Same for quad or 5.1 routings. One can also use mixed types, like a stereo and a 5.1 algorithm and have them running together, side by side, with an 8 I/O system routing, or feed the stereo one into the 5.1 structure.
    It's very easy. You are wondering too much, too high and too complex.
     
  4. frank1985

    frank1985 Member

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    I have a pcm91 and am looking for an additional rack with multi fx, mainly for pitch shifting. I am leaning slightly towards the pcm81 but am wondering if it’s really worth forking out double the price for an Eventide?
     
  5. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    It depends...
    -what do you really need?
    -what you need in a pitch shifter?
    -an Eventide going for twice an 81? Which Eventide?
     
  6. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    I think this depends on how you want to use the H8000. If you're using presets and tweaking from the front panel, I think using the H8000 is actually easier than many other racks I've worked with. The UI is very good, with objects like sliders to give non-tweakers a clear understanding of what they are changing.

    But vSig is a bit different. Constructing a basic reverb or delay is easy stuff. But to get a quick grasp on some of the math functions really requires approaching the IDE from a logical, problem-solving point of view. You don't need to be an engineer, but it helps to understand some of the fundamentals of object-oriented design and workflows (module order).

    I think I am in hour 9 of use so far and I've been able to create some nice stuff already. I think the most help has been sending Italo one of my presets, to which he sent it back corrected. That was a fine example of how to arrange the modules and get some of the basics corrected before I move on to bigger and better things.

    This thing is insane. Italo knows this, but dudes, I created a verb where 2 filters feed 8 modulated delays, each with individual depths and rates, which are then sent into a plex and eventually into a stereo mixer. This thing, with just 8 delay lines, is thicker and has more movement than any pedal verb I've ever heard (and at 96k).
     
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  7. frank1985

    frank1985 Member

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    I'm really looking for a good delay/pitch shifter combo, with eno-esque shimmer like effects. I figured the H3000 (sorry, I posted in the wrong eventide thread) would be overkill for this in terms of cost, and was wondering if the cheaper PCM81 would be a worthy partner to my PCM90
     
  8. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    No problem for posting about an H3000.
    I'm not sure that's the answer... or put in a better way... what's in an H3000 that you would consider so great (including 2 rack spaces!) vs. another similar or smaller Eventide or any other brand unit?
    I'm asking beacuse I don't know what is your knowledge of the H3000.
    What exactly do you need from pitch shifting? It's just the shift and the delay? That's all?
    How many voices you need?
    How much delay memory you want from them?
    How about filters on them?

    Looking at a PCM81... you get 4 voice shifters, with 1250 ms delay on each voice, feedback and cross-feedback.
    LFO and Time Switches to modulate those shifters... and Tap Tempo for delays and modulation rates.
    Looking at an Eclipse... you can get UP to 8 voice shifters, with 2 seconds delay memory for each, LFOs and what not.... and many pitch shifters efx variations (reverse shifters, detuners, diatonic shifters (not available on the PCM), custom scales shifters, etc.).
    I mentioned real features in these two boxes as an example of what I would like to get from you in terms of your expectations.
    H3000 gives you 2 voices, way less than a second delay memory, some variations (detuners/shifters/reverse/diatonic), a single LFO and tap tempo in not available in all algorithms.

    So... think about this, read some manuals and let us know.
     
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  9. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    So... reverbs...
    nice, grand, tight, mod or random, whatever... I'm kind of bored. Been doing this for ages now...
    What's next?
    Well... if they would build me a reverb module with a stereo Aux send/return where I could patch anything I want, between a set of internal delays and the next one.
    That would be nice... but I know I'd be quickly bored and scratch nuts for some extra fun soon.

    So... build a reverb using the H8000 delay modules (plenty of them different types in it to build old Manfred S. clunker verb to more refined stuff).
    Now... THERE is the fun, where you really assemble the big things with the small Lego pieces... there you can build sends/returns and feed the structure anything you like.
    Even sending those sends/returns out of the box to an external processor (a TC1210? another H8000 or Orville? a couple of PCM42 or a Prime TIme III? some mothe****ing big balls equalizer?) and get audio back... with a twist.
    That's what is itching! You could do this very easily with a Plex and create send(s)/return(s) with mixers there... but I feel like going deeper, really building the whole thing... and also avoiding the Plex typical reverb envelope that doesn't properly fit many reverbs applications.
    Now imagine you have those 8 delay lines and add a modfilter to every other one, in series, going into the plex. Add an lfo to each of them (4 filters/4lfos) and start modulating the filters frequencies set on different type (lowpass/highpass/bandpass) and on different freqs... changing a 2000 Hz setting between 2000 and 2200Hz. slowly... like in 20 seconds (what's that in Hz?)... your verb will take up colors you have never heard!
    Another filter and type works on a different frequency, maybe different lfo curve. Maybe a couple of filters do not use LFOs at all... and they are swept by inputs dynamics (ADSR)... add a couple of phasers on two of those delays...
    or build CURVES that will change filters in a way YOU designed... slowly like death.
    You know what I'm looking at here, right?
    Adding some events to a reverb! Not the same ones... even changing harmonic content... ever tried the HARMONIX module?
    Well... enough... you have Vsig (and brain) food for the next couple of years... as I do.
    Build some... beauty!
     
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  10. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    Let's see how that sounds...

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. markiv2290

    markiv2290 Member

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    Well, that post clarifies a lot.

    But geez Italo... no need to yell it in caps!

    That said. As I mentioned, I'm "starting" on the manual. Of course it's pretty technical, I'm ok with that, but it's going to take me some time. I started from the begining, I'll be focusing on the routing portion to start with, how the routing interacts with the presets and how the presets relates to algos.

    I have a specific use case where I would want to run the unit like a dual stereo or quad-mono processor, with the ins-outs being managed by my analog routing system. I want to check against the factory presets to see if that could be achieved there, if not then custom presets and VSIG to the rescue!
    That would have some implications as far as ease-of-use, maybe I will find some existing presets that are close enough and modify them to meet those specific needs.

    I haven't read one bit of the section that talks about VSIG. Hence, the question about programming, since I the word "programming" usually sits right next to the word "VSIG", whenever and wherever VSIG is being discussed, however illogical or factually wrong that may be.
    Thanks for making that clarification. It's good to know it's not that complicated and seeing the graphical representation that Hydro-Quebec has posted gives me more confidence that it's the sort of thing I'll be comfortable with. Because lets face it, this unit does not seem like it's for everyone (unless they want to stick to the default presets).
     
  12. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    I didn't mean to yell at you, whatever the internet "rules" say.
    It's BOLD so that it stays there and people get the idea... quickly.
    Now... you keep assuming things because you haven't read Vsig manual yet and some other things... pretty clear.

    Let's face it... you are confused. Anybody can use Vsig... but you have no idea what it is... yet... so... read the documentation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  13. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Ok... that's the main scheme... but I would make a set of changes...

    -Why using a summed mono input? Billy you have an H8000! Run your world in true stereo. Feed each input to 4 delays and the other to the remaining 4.
    Those delays could be completely separated or you could have dly 1/3/5/8 fed by input 1 and the others by input 2.
    -Those input filters? No need here as you have tons of filtering inside the reverb.
    If you really want some more filtering just use two TONE modules after the reverb; you'll have hich and low pass filters for a gentle round-out work. IIRs are very heavy!
    -Too many LFOs! No need for that. Use just 4 lfos fo the 8 delays. Try the H3000 LFO as it offers phase offset and more waveforms.
    Connect 1 LFO to 2 delays, use phase offset to spread the modulation of delay couples.
    Also bring LFOs waveforms and dutycycles up on the UI. Those MAKE a difference. Check the factory presets on how to do that.
    -learn how to add the tap tempo controlled delay and lfo functions and add them to the algorithm. You can find two "jigs" about these functions in the factory presets. Last banks, before the broadcast stuff.
    -The 8 channels mixer is something else you could spare. Make it a two channels and only connect plex outputs 1 and 2 or 1 and 8. The blending of reverb taps and filtering will sound nicer, more "belonging" to the whole reverb... rather than single delay based, even though things stack up quicly in time. Try the H3000 design (two outputs only).
    -Modfilters... those need some serious work!
    You need to bring the Qs up on the UI. Keep it soft, at 1.0. Minimum setting 0.5.
    The filters have 4 outputs for different types of filtering, low/band/high-pass and notch. We don't need noth but we absolutely need the other 2 choices for each filter. Use an ISWITCH and a TEXTKNOB to build an output switch one each filter and bring those knobs on the UI. Selecting filters types is the whole point of this algorithm.

    More ideas?
    FM modulation... one LFO modulates another LFO rate! Things get more "random" and alive....

    I hope the modules order is correct. In graphic mode the displayed order is never the real one.

    Good job!
     
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  14. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    Hey @italo de angelis hope you are doing well.. it was a very nice sound - almost as if the filters left this aura of air on top of the reverb. I did not get too far with the structure last night (family stuff), but I can tell that this will develop into something interesting.

    I did this because the plex itself accepts a mono input and that's where those are going. From in and out of the plex, I am using the inputs and outputs from the moddelays (in some cases moddelay>modfilter). I guess in this case, I would connect the inputs directly to the moddelay inputs and send those to the plex? I feel like that might not work, because I am skipping the plex master input.

    Good point. I was trimming the top end at 6500 and the fitlers were modulating between 3500 and 4500. I guess the plex moves all of those delays around, so they're receiving the same filtering. By that logic, by entire structure was flltered between 3500 and 4500...logic is happening in my head right now...I think I get it.

    Another good point. I was keeping parameters at a minimum for my first draft and planned on adding these things later. I'm sure I'll be working on this well into the weekend.

    These "jigs" are awesome and I've created a few myself. I guess these are also called Supermodules? I assume these are blocks of modules that can be put together to create large structures a bit quicker and a bit less convoluted? You send me a handful of tools that are also quite inspirational. I'm sure not to copy the modules and paste them over, but rather learn the structure, create my own, and use that.

    Hmm...I tried this and I felt like I was missing a lot of air. The reverb itself sounded thinner, but I did not investigate as far as I would have preferred to. I will experiment further with this..

    I notice you have to be very careful with those resonance controls. The can quickly send the reverb out of control, requiring you to reach for that feedback knob pretty quickly. For some reason, I remember that modfilter having a minimum q-factor of 1.0, which made me consider searching for another module type. I will also investigate this further.

    As I was driving to work today, I started to wonder what the structure would be like if I ran a couple of those delays through distort modules with light settings. It would be like overdrive inside of the reverb - a bit different than MangedVerb. That might be quite cool!

    So far, I've learned:

    • Menus first
    • Other interfaces second
    • Duplicate signal flow exactly (in this case, I think it was menus>knobs>LFOs>mixer>filters>moddelays>plex>stereo mixer)

    I'll send the sig file when I get some better work into it.

    All in all, this box is UNBELIEVABLE. I now have the playground I was searching for....
     
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  15. hydroquebec

    hydroquebec Member

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    By the way, I pulled off a pretty decent re-creation of the UltraTap structure.

    I used EasyTaps as a basis, providing all parameters and up to 64 taps. I then added a pair of moddelays and sent all of that into two DiffChorus modules with 32 diffusors each. That's not a bad preset, but it that made me consider using a shorter swept reverb, instead of the DiffChorus modules.
     
  16. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Hey @italo de angelis hope you are doing well.. it was a very nice sound - almost as if the filters left this aura of air on top of the reverb. I did not get too far with the structure last night (family stuff), but I can tell that this will develop into something interesting.

    Hey Billy
    Yep. It's about the texture! One can use a quite long feedback (decay time) and use a couple of AMPMODs to modulate the overall level of the verb as a background pad... slowly coming and going, while playing other stuff on top of it. And... to make it more odd and cool... maybe a couple of AMPMODs at the beginning of the verb, swept by something... so that while you play parts are added to the verb in a casual way... building a background of madness!
    Am I crazy?



    I did this because the plex itself accepts a mono input and that's where those are going. From in and out of the plex, I am using the inputs and outputs from the moddelays (in some cases moddelay>modfilter). I guess in this case, I would connect the inputs directly to the moddelay inputs and send those to the plex? I feel like that might not work, because I am skipping the plex master input.

    You are right; the module is mono in... but you could use two Plexes for true stereo work, using single knobs for size and decay (for both modules).
    This would need some re_design work, but not too much. Don't skip the Plex input.





    These "jigs" are awesome and I've created a few myself. I guess these are also called Supermodules? I assume these are blocks of modules that can be put together to create large structures a bit quicker and a bit less convoluted? You send me a handful of tools that are also quite inspirational. I'm sure not to copy the modules and paste them over, but rather learn the structure, create my own, and use that.

    It's not about copyrights there. Use them, no worry.
    Copyrights are ON a finished algorithm. THAT needs to stay personal and private.




    Hmm...I tried this and I felt like I was missing a lot of air. The reverb itself sounded thinner, but I did not investigate as far as I would have preferred to. I will experiment further with this..

    Instead of the mixer you could use a couple of GAIN modules. They can beef up to +48dB! You may want to limit that to 6 or 9 at the most... setting that in the max. value of the control knob, used for level. In this way you will regain balls!



    I notice you have to be very careful with those resonance controls. The can quickly send the reverb out of control, requiring you to reach for that feedback knob pretty quickly. For some reason, I remember that modfilter having a minimum q-factor of 1.0, which made me consider searching for another module type. I will also investigate this further.

    Yes. The Q doesn't like feedback! So... very low settings. Higher than 2.0 and you can get some nasty squealing.



    As I was driving to work today, I started to wonder what the structure would be like if I ran a couple of those delays through distort modules with light settings. It would be like overdrive inside of the reverb - a bit different than MangedVerb. That might be quite cool!


    Ah driving! Like when you're about to fall asleep. That's when your Vsig alter-ego strikes!
    Tha bastard knows where you're vulnerable.
    Distorto... yes but study HOW to use it as it's not the most simple thing. Check the presets.
    And it doesn't like feedback, so use it with caution. Its waves can be nasty. The first one is a pleasant one for mild textural brutality.



    So far, I've learned:

    • Menus first
    • Other interfaces second
    • Duplicate signal flow exactly (in this case, I think it was menus>knobs>LFOs>mixer>filters>moddelays>plex>stereo mixer)

    I'll send the sig file when I get some better work into it.


    Close enough but you need to know more about that...




    All in all, this box is UNBELIEVABLE. I now have the playground I was searching for....

    Amazing uh?
    Sometimes, you know, when talking about these matters... it feels like walking in a big crowd where people have no idea what they are missing... like you have controllable and endless atomic energy in your pocket and most folks keep on by candles... I wish I could show people what is in there, and how easily it would change their lives forever, making them much better.
     
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  17. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    I think that module was a bit buggy or had some annoying thing in the UI...
    It may be different from the UltraTap, but UltraTap is not the end of it all! I am sure there are much nicer multitap structures that can be made.
    Take a look at some presets running 4 (or more) xxx-taps (check theor names).
    You could build a multitap stringing 24 delays, using a second of memory for each... and generate some nasty stuff.
     
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  18. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Unwrap your potential in building your own effects... and create the next ones

    •••••••••••• VSIGFILE Master Class •••••••••••••



    You are the proud owner of an Eventide DSP4000/4500, GTR4000, DSP7000/7500, Orville, H7600, H8000, or you are considering one of these marvelous machines for your guitar rig, personal studio, professional recording studio, broadcast studio, web work...
    You've heard a lot of stories about the algorithm editor Vsigfile, read about it on the internet and feel intimidated by the urban legends around, even scared.
    People say it's a difficult thing, it's hard, it's this ... and that... and yet all these folks never did any work on it and many of them never had an Eventide.
    Nothing is so wrapped up in so many lies and completely unrealistic descriptions of what it is. Nothing can enpower YOU as this little program, a few megabytes... in this day and age when even the dullest smart phone "app" is as heavy as stone, and make YOU the complete mastermind behind your sounds, textures, effects, loops, anything you can imagine or dream of now... and the many things you WILL start thinking about AFTER you have been thru this learning experience.
    Don't let the ignorance talk stopping you. Make the best of what you now own and have worked hard to get. Make a turn in your sonic life. Just OWN IT!

    This is a crash course that will put you in pilot seat on your Eventide aircraft. You will learn about:
    -Vsig setting up... get the hardware and software needed to work on a Windows or Mac computer
    -configure Vsig, your computer and your Eventide
    -learn the basics of how Vsig looks, talks to you and works FOR you
    -learn about modules, audio, control, math and user interface
    -learn about effects
    -understand the smartest and fastest programming workflow
    -learn the rules! Very few of them... but important (order of modules)
    -learn tricks (dummies modules, strategies, programming steps)
    -understand graphic and text modes in Vsig
    -witness the complete building of an algorithm, in realtime, including all aspects of it (audio/control/MIDI/U.I.)
    -build an elegant User Interface, custom made.. as YOU like it to be!
    -learn how basic control/audio functions are created and get a collection of them for your study and work
    -build an algorithm or two, together with me
    -get answers to your questions!


    12 hours in 6 sessions of 2 hours each as a basic format. We freely schedule each of them as comfy as we like.
    If you need more... we'll do more.
    Works perfectly on Skype, with screen sharing. My students can do work for me while I drive you them thru the path or follow my work on their monitor.
    Don't skip this powerful experience! You will learn a lot of things about effects in general, things you can use on ANY processor. You will never be the same after this.

    Directly contact me for details (PM or use my website contact interface).
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  19. DieHon

    DieHon Member

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    I'm GASing so badly for an H8000!

    I still can't believe the H9000 won't offer all this VSIG universe!
     
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  20. italo de angelis

    italo de angelis Member

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    Well...
    they didn't give any official announcement about that yet.
    But there must be something doing Vsig work or the H8000 presets wouldn't be easily converted to the H9000 platform.
    It's just "in the works" for the public version...
    I couldn't possibly conceive they won't release a Vsig version for it... it would be like shooting themselves in their faces.

    We'll see...
     

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