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Eventide Timefactor VS DC Timeline

Datsyuk

Peace, Love and Coltrane
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,431
Special thanks to Passenger 84 for the great demo of the Timeline.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R30Q9k-SA&NR=1

To anyone that may have tried both the Eventide Timefactor as well as the DC Timeline, I'm wondering if the Timefactor can get most of the sounds (or reasonalby similar) that you hear in Passenger 84's demo clips? I really like the ethereal, ambient tones that often have modulation that I hear in Passenger 84's clips. I've also heard some great ambient clips from the Eventide. Does the Eventide sound as "warm" as the Timeline? Are there any major negatives to the Timeline aside from size and looks? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!! :confused:
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
what do you mean by "warmer" ? Do you mean darker? I found the eventide to be extremely musical and gorgeous and lush sounding. Now that I have a fulltone TTE, it's interesting to me to note how folks who use analog delays with their characterist treble fall-off claim that it sounds more like tape. I don't hear the treble drop-off with the tape delays (fulltone or maestro). To me, the treble decay is artificial sounding and muddy.
 

Datsyuk

Peace, Love and Coltrane
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,431
what do you mean by "warmer" ? Do you mean darker? I found the eventide to be extremely musical and gorgeous and lush sounding. Now that I have a fulltone TTE, it's interesting to me to note how folks who use analog delays with their characterist treble fall-off claim that it sounds more like tape. I don't hear the treble drop-off with the tape delays (fulltone or maestro). To me, the treble decay is artificial sounding and muddy.
Right on, I was really hoping to hear from you Jack. Please, correct me if necessary as I may have my facts incorrect. We're you not originally somewhat dissappointed in the Timefactor? All of your recent Timefactor posts have been very positive. I really enjoyed your Timefactor clips used for the Holdsworthian demo! Great playing and sound. Here is the number one question regarding the Timefactor and that quite frankly is how it affects ones original tone / dry signal. What's your opinion on this issue?
Are there anythings about the Timefactor that you don't like. If you should happen to have an extra minute or two, do you thinks that the Timefactor can get similar sounds to these You tube clips by Passenger 84?

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=fDhvwHxRGxs&feature=related

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a1V1UyqpcaU&feature=related

Thanks in advance, Bill
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
I have owned 2 timefactors. They sound amazing. I have not heard a digital delay that comes closer to sounding like a Tape Delay. However, there were a number of bugs in their algorithms. I posted about them in their forum and the postings were deleted. Because of this and lack of followup on these issues from my calls to their support, I have been disappointed in their support. Other folks love their support and I suspect that most folks aren't as picky as I am about glitches and such.

I don't think the timefactor effects the dry tone much at all. It's really a great delay if you don't run into the issues I had. However, I was basically using it for a slap-back sound and ended up selling it after I got my TTE but I find myself missing it. I may buy another one.

By the way, I bought mine on the recommendation of Tom Buckovic who is one of the best guitarists and studio musicians on the planet. He uses Roland Tape Echos for many of his studio recordings but bought several timefactors recently and has been working them into his recording rotation.

I'll take a listen to the clips you posted. Right now I'm on a cheap laptop without good speakers.


Right on, I was really hoping to hear from you Jack. Please, correct me if necessary as I may have my facts incorrect. We're you not originally somewhat dissappointed in the Timefactor? All of your recent Timefactor posts have been very positive. I really enjoyed your Timefactor clips used for the Holdsworthian demo! Great playing and sound. Here is the number one question regarding the Timefactor and that quite frankly is how it affects ones original tone / dry signal. What's your opinion on this issue?
Are there anythings about the Timefactor that you don't like. If you should happen to have an extra minute or two, do you thinks that the Timefactor can get similar sounds to these You tube clips by Passenger 84?

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=fDhvwHxRGxs&feature=related

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a1V1UyqpcaU&feature=related

Thanks in advance, Bill
 

Datsyuk

Peace, Love and Coltrane
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,431
Thanks for sharing your experience. I did something a little implusive and ordered the DC Timeline. The store is out of stock, like pretty much everyone else carrying their products, so if doesn't show in 30 days I'll move on. Something about the tone of those clips by Passenger 84 that really grabbed me. For the same money I know the Timefactor has many great extra features and I should probably try one out in the mean time. Thanks for all of your clips and reviews, highly appreciated.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
I listened to those clips this morning. it's hard to tell from the clips but I think the timefactor hangs with the timeline based on those clips. I'm curious whether the tube in the timeline is used as a diode or a not? Many of these pedals with tubes use them as diodes and the tube is more of a gimmick. Perhaps in person, the timeline would be easier to judge...It does sound great though.

By the way, I just picked up a diamond memory lane. (The original version). I'm going to do an A/B comparison with the TTE and post a video. Should be interesting..
 

Pat Healy

Member
Messages
10,954
I thought the two were quite comparable in terms of tone, meaning they both sounded great. The Timefactor's Vintage delay is very warm. What ultimately swayed me toward the TF was its more compact size. Have you actually played a Timeline in person? It is massive. It's like having a manhole cover on your pedalboard. I couldn't give up that much real estate to one pedal. If Damage Control could figure out how to make these things more compact, I'd probably own both a Timeline and a Glass Nexus. Their pedals are so cool and sound great, I just think it's crazy that they're so big.
 

donbarzini

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,090
I thought the Timefactor messed with my dry tone too much, even with no effect on I felt that my signal was being converted to digital somehow and it just sounded thinner, tried all bypass settings. I tried two different Timefactors, one with the newest firmware and from what I recall, I liked the older firmware better. The Tape Echo setting did not sound at all like a real tape echo, for me anyway, way too pristine and could not get any of the repeates to get dirty. With the version 2 firmware it changed it so you could make the repeats even darker but it sounded way too muddy, kind of like the T-Rex Replica with the brown switch engaged. I tried the unit with several different amps, in front and in the effects loop, my fellings did not change. I owned the Timeline briefly and while I thought it sounded good, it surely could not handle the output from my effects loop and after much tweaking I could not get it too sound the way I prefer. It definitely is thicker and more analog sounding compared to the Timefactor but none of the units have made me want to get rid of my modded H&K Replex, I have found no other pedal to cop the real tones of an Echoplex compared to that one. If I wanted and needed several different types of delays, I would have stuck with the Timefactor even though the tone change just bugged me. I recently purchased the do-it-all Line 6 M13 out of curiousity, we'll see how that one does.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
I thought the Timefactor messed with my dry tone too much
I didn't get that at all.

, even with no effect on I felt that my signal was being converted to digital somehow and it just sounded thinner, tried all bypass settings.
It uses a relay and is true bypass so no, it doesn't mess with the tone in pedal-off mode.

I tried two different Timefactors, one with the newest firmware and from what I recall, I liked the older firmware better. The Tape Echo setting did not sound at all like a real tape echo, for me anyway, way too pristine and could not get any of the repeates to get dirty.
I agree that the tape echo is not very good. The vintage delay sounds much better and was what I used exclusively.
 

donbarzini

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,090
I didn't get that at all. It uses a relay and is true bypass so no, it doesn't mess with the tone in pedal-off mode.
There were others who also felt the same way as I did, I had to give it another go around with the 2.0 firmware just to make sure but my findings were the same.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
firmware doesn't come into play with bypass. The way it works is that a relay switches the input to the output directly. No other circuitry involved. You can prove this by unplugging the power supply. When you do this, the relay automatically kicks into true bypass.
 

Franktone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,037
I wondered about the purpose of the two tubes too, but here's what the company says: Tube-Buffered Wet Path
Dual 12AX7 tubes biased at 250V buffer the signal before and after the digital conversion, ensuring the highest degree of warmth and musicality for the delayed signal.
 

peridot1

Member
Messages
1,264
I wonder where all these gimmick tube pedals are? Seriously? I hear much about them on forums like this. Since direct recording is my hobby tube pedals and tube mic preamps are pretty important. Are we talking Vox Cooltrons, Tonebones, Damage Control or EHX?

I have changed tubes and noticed tones get altered. There was a rumor that Art mic pres use starve plate. I have a Art Pro channel and put mullards in them that significantly improved my signal.

So I wonder where all these starve plate tube units are?
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
Art, Zen2, BK Butler, Tonelab are a few. Just because you change tubes and hear a diff has nothing to do with it. Even the zen2 which uses the tube in the feedback loop (i.e. not the audio path) I heard a big diff when I switched to a tungsol reissue tube. Not really sure what your point is - Maybe to refute that voltage starved tube products exist?

I wanted to reply to the timeline 250v statement too. Their site states:
The tone starts here. Damage Control products use a switching power supply that creates 250 volts DC inside the chassis to bias the tubes at tube-amp levels. It's the only way to get real tube tone.
Which is funny because it's a marketing blurb and makes no sense from a technical standpoint. So they bias the tube at 250v? ;)

I wonder where all these gimmick tube pedals are? Seriously? I hear much about them on forums like this. Since direct recording is my hobby tube pedals and tube mic preamps are pretty important. Are we talking Vox Cooltrons, Tonebones, Damage Control or EHX?
 

peridot1

Member
Messages
1,264
BK Butler is starve plate? Don't they use a 220 v power supply?

Damage control pedals draw 1500 milliamps from a 9v AC power supply. Is that enough to power a tube? If not I'm willing to accept I'm tone deaf.

Not really sure what your point is - Maybe to refute that voltage starved tube products exist?
I think they exist but not nearly as numerous as many are making them out to be.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
what v the power supply runs at has little to do with the tube's plate voltage. The new fuchs reverb pedal runs off 9v but supplies over 200V to the tube. 1500 ma has nothing to do with plate voltage either. I just listed 4 or 5 examples. There are lots more out there. Do a search. It's not a matter of being tone deaf either. As I said with the Zen2, it made a big diff to swap the tubes even though the tube in that circuit is running off low voltage and in the feedback loop and not the audio path.

BK Butler is starve plate? Don't they use a 220 v power supply?

Damage control pedals draw 1500 milliamps from a 9v AC power supply. Is that enough to power a tube? If not I'm willing to accept I'm tone deaf.



I think they exist but not nearly as numerous as many are making them out to be.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,877
Not trying to overdo this but curious. How does the new fuchs reverb pedal able to pull this off. What are they doing differently?
You'll have to ask Andy. I was asked not to disclose any technical details of this. I believe it's a patent-applied-for circuit.
 

Datsyuk

Peace, Love and Coltrane
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,431
Thanks so much everyone for the feedback. The Timeline is one nasty looking humongous beast! The thing that sold me on the Timeline besides the analog guitar signal being unchanged is that every single sound and clip that I have heard of this pedal has sounded really good to me. When I listen to a lot of Timefactor clips there are a lot of sounds that knock me out and quite a few that leave me fairly uninspired. The Timeline is expected to be back in stock in about 30 days. If it doesn't completely blow me away it will be returned pronto and the Timefactor will be in picked up asap.
 




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