F1 2014----Part II

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by traviswalk, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    Well, maybe not the particular numbers, but similar dominance has happened regularly in F1. Williams in 1992 & 1993, the Italians in the early 50's, Mercedes when it entered its first year in the 50's, etc. Seasons and rules were different in those days though, so it's not really even possible to compare things over ten years ago.

    That said, I think an interesting point has been demonstrated this season. I think the age-old question of whether it's the car or driver that matters most has some new evidence. If you look at this season, you see over and over again a qual field set up in twos: The two Mercs, followed by the two Williams, followed by the two McClarens, etc., back through the pack. Punctuating this has been a couple of cars that move around in qual, like Ricciardo and Alonso. the races also seem to finish this way, with slightly more variation accounted for by car troubles and mistakes.

    What this tends to illustrate, I think, is that F1 has largely become about the car, at the expense of the driver. the Mercs, if they held up and the drivers didn't crash them, tended to always be in front. Was this because they two drivers were the best, or even better than anyone else? I don't think so - since it came out the same way over and over and over. I think this season suggests very strongly that the ability of the car overrides everything else and that whoever is in the best car will become champ, so long as he doesn't screw up. Put ANY of the top drivers in that Merc and THEY would be in first or second place.

    I think this theory is strengthened by seeing that a couple of drivers, Ricciardo and Alonso, moved all over in Qual and races. I think this happened because both are outstanding drivers, not just good ones, that were able to take advantage of situations and outdrive their car's limitations. Put Ham or Nico in the Red Bull or Ferrari, and neither would be winning three times and/or outdriving the Williams cars.

    This year wasn't about Hamilton, because he was really only competing with Nico. It came down to the last race BECAUSE the Mercs were so will matched and neither had to worry about anyone else. The result was almost random chance.

    This season was boring because of this, even if there were some exciting moments. The end result, in all but details, was apparent by the third or fourth race. EVERYONE knew the Mercs would win the season and that Ham or Nico would be it. Each race ended with both on top, followed by the Williams cars, followed by the McClarens, with Ric and Alo somewhere random in the pack... Exciting moments, with predictable sameness of outcome.

    I've been saying it, and I'll say it again: If F1 wants to save itself, it MUST remove the ability for one constructor to dominate by producing a car that creates the champion. It must reduce predictability and the sense of inevitability. Racing is and should be about the driver. The best season have always been the ones where there is real rivalry between teams. I'm not suggesting spec cars by any stretch, but ALL technological advances should be available to all teams all the time, so whatever Merc is doing right, should be copiable by anyone else after some very reasonable time. Extreme advances should be limited in time-frame for dominance.

    Technological advances should be ENCOURAGED by the rules, not stopped by them. The great cars of the old days would never get made under rules like today. Do you think the Ford-Cosworth DFV would ever have been developed if F1 had the conservative nature it has now? We'd all still be seeing 50's roadsters in F1, if the FIA were as rule-bound as they are now.

    And the tracks should be made more difficult and no-nonsense. get rid of all these long runoffs that allow a driver to just re-enter the race like nothing happened. I'm NOT saying move the fences back up to the track, but put back the gravel. Make it COST something to run wide.
     
  2. jnepo1

    jnepo1 Silver Supporting Member

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    I like Horner's thoughts about dumbing down the V6 turbo. It's a way to keep cost down and allow for the less competitive teams to have a chance.

    On to other news, Mattiaci is out at Ferrari.
     
  3. 808

    808 Member

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    Ferrari is in no mans land, breaking up the dream team has been there undoing.
     
  4. traviswalk

    traviswalk In the Great State Gold Supporting Member

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    Wow, how about that for Mattiaci. Sergio Marchionne is making some wholesale change at that place. Suppose as a gearing up for Vettel and a re-make of the team. But while Schumacher helped when he joined, it was also Brawn and Todt that helped eventually form the super team that dominated for so long. What other resources are they going to bring in other than Vettel and a guy from Phillip Morris??
     
  5. Mosfed

    Mosfed The mighty mighty

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    Where is the "like" button when you need it...?
     
  6. Mosfed

    Mosfed The mighty mighty

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    Frankly it is the only chance we have given the cap on spending and development. Next year will be another long year for Ferrari.

    SO COME ON MASSA!
     
  7. jnepo1

    jnepo1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Interesting that you brought up Ross Brawn. His name was mentioned today with regards to Ferrari as well as a few other engineers. Brawn's name was brought up as a Technical Director position, which for me, Brawn deserves the highest position if you want him in any role.
     
  8. Boobala

    Boobala Member

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    I'm still waiting on your condemnation of those that have repeatedly wished bad luck upon Vettel and Rosberg in this and the previous thread.
     
  9. oldlefty

    oldlefty Member

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    In F1 that's Carma.

    You didn't catch on at Monaco?
     
  10. 76strat

    76strat Gold Supporting Member

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    Boobala and jnepo1: I'm certainly not the track marshall here, but please do us all a favor and keep your otherwise very good input on this great page to the myriad and complicated issues that are Formula One and leave the insults and personal attacks somewhere else, please. We don't want this page locked because two guys are going at it over who the better driver/team really is, etc. Until Rosberg/Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso ask any of us our opinions directly, our opinions are just that--opinions. Please stop throwing flames at each other. I've really enjoyed reading your combined contributions on here throughout the season, but sh*t, please take your lockerroom bickering somewhere else if you can't leave it on-track.
     
  11. jnepo1

    jnepo1 Silver Supporting Member

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    :aok
    Wow. Get over it. All you've done is post your hatred for Hamilton on this thread and nothing else. It's not just me who have noticed this. If you have nothing more to say aside from your negative or hatred remarks, stay off the thread.
     
  12. jnepo1

    jnepo1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks!
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Member

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    In Monaco, I was still willing to give him the benefit of doubt:facepalm
     
  14. j.s.tonehound

    j.s.tonehound Member

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    I had a choice between the 'grandstand' last race of the season and a football match. I picked F1 because it was the last race and there seemed to be a fair bit of chatter about it not being 'nailed on' for Hamilton (which I thought it most certainly was considering he's the fastest Mercedes driver in the fastest car). I watched it all the way up to the first corner.... Hamilton in the lead. Done. Season over at last. I switched over and enjoyed the football.

    This, for me, has been the season that's turned me off F1. The constant degrading of the cars has produced awful sounding and terrible looking machines and has thrown up yet another all conquering, dominating package. The problem with this package is that it's the best of a bad bunch. Congratulations to the design and engineering team. But the rest of the team, drivers included, have failed to cover themselves in any glory with petty fighting, mis-management, and taking so long to secure the drivers and constructors titles in such a dominant car. There is little in the way of true spectacle and I've reached a point that I just don't want to spend 3hrs of my weekend being bored to tears.
     
  15. Timinator

    Timinator Supporting Member

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    Yep, another season come and gone.

    Here's my take, Hamilton and Alonso are the two best drivers.

    Vettel is going to crash and burn (not figuratively) at Ferrari. I would have dumped Kimi too.

    The V6 Turbo's suck and made watching even harder.

    Button has always been mid-pack and, if he stays, will remain there. He was competitive one season which lends credit back to it just being in the best car that matters more than anything. Unfortunately, true.

    Let the manufactures build the best damn cars they can, limit the rev's. I like watching the best technology in the world race, not V6 Turbo's that sound like 4 cycle motorcycles.
     
  16. jnepo1

    jnepo1 Silver Supporting Member

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    What's ironic about all this V6 Turbi technology is the fact that Renault was the one that instigated this several years back. Now, because of their issues with under developing their car, wants to change things up. Now with Red Bull as their works team, Christian Horner has done a 180* on the matter and ditch the complexities that was agreed upon and instigated by Renault Works which is now under the Red Bull umbrella. Honda dropped out of F1 originally because there was no sense for them to be in the market of F1 due to the lack of technological advancements in the engines. Honda only stepped back in because of the new technology. So Honda and Merc have and will move forward where Renault and Ferrari wants to dummy down the technology and revert to a generic V6 turbo system. They are citing the cost involved in the process. Well, in any major move, the cost will always be at its highest and eventually flatten out after an established set of rules and technology have been advanced thru the regulations.
     
  17. soulohio

    soulohio Member

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    man I can't think of anything better than F1 and futbol. Even my fiance asks me "Cómo fue Sebastián"... of course now she can join me as a Ferrari fan
     
  18. oldlefty

    oldlefty Member

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    ?

    Do you mean "not literally"?
     
  19. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    Why do so many of you whine about Monaco? What happened there, even if it WAS caused by Nico's shunt, is just racing. That's how it works. And that's why you DON'T always just wait until the final 1 minute to go out and produce your flyer.

    This was Ham's fault more than anyone else's. He waited until the last minute to do his fast lap because he didn't want Nico to have time to best it. It didn't work. You don't know your F1 history if you think this is the only time a real or fake shunt has screwed someone in Qualifying.

    Whatever the truth of Nico, this could just as easily be caused by anyone else crashing into a barrier (this WAS Monaco - and such a thing is common there). Again, this sometimes happens in Qualifying.

    Look, this is racing. Sometime people employ strategies (if that's what actually happened). Sometimes they are too obvious about it and get caught and penalized - and sometimes they get away with it. Sometimes things just happen and it gives someone an edge. It's a part of the game that Hamilton signed up for. Every driver on that track tries to do SOMETHING that will give him an edge.
     
  20. soulohio

    soulohio Member

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    I can't think of a better time to win the race...right at the end. Nobody argues with that result and there is no comeback....
     

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