Fake shredders? Did you know this is a thing?

MR.K

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In early '90 I bought a promo copy of "The Power Of Ten" by Shawn Lane. His name popped up recently so I looked around YouTube and found the below recording. For guitar players not hip to Shawn I thought I'd post this: Solo starts at :40
 

JosephZdyrski

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3,023
In early '90 I bought a promo copy of "The Power Of Ten" by Shawn Lane. His name popped up recently so I looked around YouTube and found the below recording. For guitar players not hip to Shawn I thought I'd post this: Solo starts at :40
Shawn Lane is cool ... was really into him around the time of his death. Tried to copy some of his fast lines with no success. Bought his hot licks alone to discover that most of what he does is almost impossible for others to play. His hands although not huge can stretch to limits that don’t make sense. 8, 9, 10 stretches in the middle of fretboard amazingly fast, lines others would have to tap he plays normal.

Needless to say I never learned to play like Shawn Lane. And the reasons I stated above are why no one else sounds like him either.

But I’ve noticed this kinda stuff a lot lately. People are using technology to make them seem better than they are. I see a lot of hodgepodge performances too that try
to portray themselves as genuine live performances. Record something 4 or 5 times and splice together the best parts. Every time I see a change more then once in camera angle I automatically think that where they made a mistake and had to splice to videos to hide it. See 4 or 5 camera angles it’s usually a spliced video.
 
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gonzoknife

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393
So much PC in the world today.

I say, it's BS to make "music" by stealing bits of other peoples songs
People have been stealing bits of songs forever. Beethoven made several variations based on themes by Mozart (it was a common practice at the time to write variations on well known melodies). George Harrison based "If I Needed Someone" on the riff from The Byrds "The Bells of Rhymney" which was their version of a Pete Seeger song.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head. There's nothing new under the sun.
 
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Here's one guy who cheated his way to win some sweet guitar gear:


Levi Clay has done several vids on this, both the people polishing up their supposed "improvised" performances, and those doing technique or pure speed showcases that aren't actually what they appear. Like many have pointed out, if you deliberately try to mislead people into thinking you're better than you really are, either by miming to a MIDI track, speeding up, etc, that's really dishonest, and worth talking about whenever it comes up.
 

cyrusj

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86
Isn't this what Dragonforce have been doing (and denying) for more than a decade? It usually sounds very obvious but I guess some people are tech wizards.

Personally I don't like the sound of 3 note per string box shredding because it's so contrived.
 

Dasein

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4,385
Watch this dudes live stuff. Look at Lucas Mann

He's not sped up. I'm well aware of peoples skepticism. But it is real. He's a signed artist that collabs with many many high profile musicians and all can attest to his prowess on the strings. He's really one of the only people i'd say are on the same level (in their genre) of guitar playing. "Aliencore" that is.
Dude --- you've lost your objectivity and you need to develop your ear (and eye) a bit more. Its about as real as a Kardashian Instagram post (and just as doctored)... Not that I don't think these guys can play, but this video is bathed in secret sauce.
 

Dasein

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How can you tell? All the motions (his arm, shirt, fingers) all seem natural to me.
It's my hypothesis based on my smell test.... it "looks and feels" sped up..... Kind of like a stripper's fake boobies..... I know what real boobies look like -- I know how they sit, how they move, I know the shape as it relates to things like weight to hang ratios... I just know..... If I had a dollar for every time some punter in a strip bar tried to argue with that the stripper in front of us had "real" boobies when I said they were fake, then I'd have given that dollar to the dancer and they would have been able to finish nursing school instead of developing a meth habits and hooking up with some part-time drywaller and moving to Akron....
 

CanserDYI

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1,128
Dude --- you've lost your objectivity and you need to develop your ear (and eye) a bit more. Its about as real as a Kardashian Instagram post (and just as doctored)... Not that I don't think these guys can play, but this video is bathed in secret sauce.
Obviously this video is not "live". This is a protools'd out video of it. But the dude can play every lick in it. Of course its cleaned the **** up. Thats the point of his sound. Its about the same thing as a hip hop artist sampling songs. He didnt write or play it, but we like his complilation right? Think of this similarly. Of COURSE there is studio magic making this crazy. Look at how many cuts are in this video. I don't think anyones saying that song is one take. Even if its 50 takes, the amount of work that goes into even producing a lot of these things is immense, and you have to look at it more of a compositional talent and a talent in the studio and using his "brushes" or "tools" differently to paint his "painting". Why wouldn't you want your end result (especially if you're going for ALIENCORE, its supposed to sound like alien machinery) to sound odd and overly cleaned up? Its the POINT. Like it or not, he has his own sound, and he works very hard to create that sound. Listen or don't, it doesnt take the talent out of it.

His songs with vocals SUCK ASS, to be fair.
 
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A_F

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132
I always wonder who even likes this kind of stuff...regardless if it is sped up or not.
The riff is just a mess of notes...and the tone is god awful.
"Shitler"...perfect name for it. :D
Way back when, I'd been playing guitar for maybe 2 years, and my buddy and I went through a "speed" phase. Our guys were DiMeola, McLaughlin and Morse. I tried, I practiced, but there was a certain speed I couldn't get past - for my own ego let's call it "slightly fast, maybe" - which was not very impressive and it really wasn't scratching any kind of itch for me. My friend is a natural guitar talent - he was capable of near-Morse speeds in high school. I always say (and it's probably true) that he was better in HS than I am now - and I'm thoroughly, aggressively OK.

Anyway, I see "fast for the sake of fast" as a young man's game, primarily. I lost interest by the middle of HS. I got into punk, then reggae, then old blues, soul and R&B. I'm more impressed by Cornell Dupree and Hubert Sumlin than any given shredder. But I also recognize that it's a taste thing. To each their own.

And if your band's WHOLE THING is fast, technical metal, then speeding up the recording is BS.
 

McShred

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2,899
Obviously this video is not "live". This is a protools'd out video of it. But the dude can play every lick in it. Of course its cleaned the **** up. Thats the point of his sound.
There is a difference between "cleaning thing up" in protools and what this guy does. This guy is either recording things at half speed then speeding up so they are super clean, or using midi to trigger notes and then manipulating the pitch/attack & decay in protools.

Milli Vanilli is more authentic than what he's doing. At least those dudes could really dance.

He can plays the licks one by one, but sloppily, and certainly no way could he ever get through an entire song in one take.
 

CanserDYI

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There is a difference between "cleaning thing up" in protools and what this guy does. This guy is either recording things at half speed then speeding up so they are super clean, or using midi to trigger notes and then manipulating the pitch/attack & decay in protools.

Milli Vanilli is more authentic than what he's doing. At least those dudes could really dance.

He can plays the licks one by one, but sloppily, and certainly no way could he ever get through an entire song in one take.
Again, why is that deemed not music but people producing beats isn't? He's not really a touring musician much anyways, essentially the finished product is his art. Not necessarily if he can preform it exactly the same way with the exact same effects and layering with one person, how the **** would that even be possible? Its not about if it can be played 100% live.. **** have you ever heard a band with one guitarist multiple track a part? How the **** are they supposed to play that live?

I get what youre saying I really do, you just have to take a step back and look at it from a different perspective. The end polished result is everything to him. So are we kicking people using looping pedals? Are we kicking people using delay pedals because it sounds harder than what they're playing?

You just don't like the end sound it seems, and thats fine. But i can tell that this kid worked his ass off to make that song, and I have a hard time believing you're creating anything with this much layering and complexity. This isn't just random notes. Its a compiled chaos. Listen or don't. He's got quite a following and its not from faking stuff. Even to "fake" it, he has to understand the composition part of it, and his compositions are wayyyyy more complex than most of the stuff we're hearing on the radio, and even in underground stuff. Why aren't more people sounding like him then if it were so easy and so many people are into that style of music now? Just like there are 1000 Jimi hendrix rip offs and Jimmy Page wanna be's. Shoot, people have been destroying their licks for decades now. I don't see many people even attempting what this guy does or tries with his all bedroom studio band.

Listen or don't listen, your judgement is moot.

EDIT: And really? Youre comparing this guy to Milli Vanilli? On what planet would that make any sense? At least he actually wrote his music and compiled it using his own hands.
 
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McShred

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My problem with this guy is the deceit. I asked him politely on FB if he could play those songs through in single pass without editing and if he was really claiming he tracked those guitars live, or if he used midi to trigger notes...

I got banned from his FB page, comments deleted. Another guy I know, prominent player, went in and asked the same thing...comments deleted, banned from page. If he had nothing to hide, he would be forthcoming and say, yeah...I use midi and triggered guitar lines and autotune as compositional tools. But he doesn't, he hides that ****, and bans anyone that questions whether he actually can play those parts.
 

CanserDYI

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My problem with this guy is the deceit. I asked him politely on FB if he could play those songs through in single pass without editing and if he was really claiming he tracked those guitars live, or if he used midi to trigger notes...

I got banned from his FB page, comments deleted. Another guy I know, prominent player, went in and asked the same thing...comments deleted, banned from page. If he had nothing to hide, he would be forthcoming and say, yeah...I use midi and triggered guitar lines and autotune as compositional tools. But he doesn't, he hides that ****, and bans anyone that questions whether he actually can play those parts.
Yeah because any right minded individual is going to take a facebook message like that as "polite". I would have blocked you too, lol.

You're splitting so many hairs here. Where does music start and end? Is hip hop music? Whens the last time you saw a rap band? Gym Class heroes? That was sick, but for the most part, that stuff is recorded before hand and a button is pressed to start it. Are they music, but this guy isn't because his final product is what he's trying to push, a super clean almost unhumanlike sound, you know why? Because its ****ing aliencore. Thats the style. Just like punk style enjoys the low fi garage sound? This is the opposite. He wants clean precise almost mechanical sound. How can you achieve that if you arent a ****ing robot i wonder? Dude its art. its all art. Everything musical is art, and until something WRITES THE SONG FOR HIM AND PLAYS IT FOR HIM, its not cheating.

If thats cheating than so are Noisegates, so are delay pedals, octave fuzz, loopers, pitch shifters, etc. Where is your line drawn?

EDIT: And what if he marketed this as electronica music? Would that be allowed as music then? Because its played on a guitar, its gotta have an organic sound right? Nothing else is allowed? Even if thats the sound the artist was ****ing GOING FOR?
 
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egregion

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546
Lol that wig :spit


Now here's a chap that doesn't need to fake anything, one of the best chops on the planet:

Can tell it's not fake because all the little imperfections. The slight amount of string ringing before he mutes them, all the string scraping sounds you get from high gain, etc.

Reminds me of a video I saw of Marty Friedman. He had string ringing and scraping sounds too. He wasn't bothered by it. Most of that stuff gets lost once it's in the mix anyway. Hell, the start of the Nothing Else Matters solo sounds like someone falling off their chair and you can't hear it in the mix.

Check it out here:
 

McShred

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2,899
Yeah because any right minded individual is going to take a facebook message like that as "polite". I would have blocked you too, lol.

You're splitting so many hairs here. Where does music start and end? Is hip hop music? Whens the last time you saw a rap band? Gym Class heroes? That was sick, but for the most part, that stuff is recorded before hand and a button is pressed to start it. Are they music, but this guy isn't because his final product is what he's trying to push, a super clean almost unhumanlike sound, you know why? Because its ****ing aliencore. Thats the style. Just like punk style enjoys the low fi garage sound? This is the opposite. He wants clean precise almost mechanical sound. How can you achieve that if you arent a ****ing robot i wonder? Dude its art. its all art. Everything musical is art, and until something WRITES THE SONG FOR HIM AND PLAYS IT FOR HIM, its not cheating.

If thats cheating than so are Noisegates, so are delay pedals, octave fuzz, loopers, pitch shifters, etc. Where is your line drawn?

EDIT: And what if he marketed this as electronica music? Would that be allowed as music then? Because its played on a guitar, its gotta have an organic sound right? Nothing else is allowed? Even if thats the sound the artist was ****ing GOING FOR?
Your argument about the music, what is music, hip hop uses samples, etc... doesn't really hold up here. Hip hop isn't pretending that they are actually playing the music. They are transparent in their practices. They make electronic beats and then rappers with great lyrical and rhythmic skill rap over them...live. MC's actually take great pride in their ability to improvise and spit over random topics and beats, if it ever came out that an MC was using electronic trickery to make it appear that he better flow than another MC... there would be uproar, that MC would get called out by his peers and they'd be over & done.

This Berry clown's videos don't showcase the music.....The music isn't the focal point. They showcase the playing, the almost supernatural technical precision in the execution of the parts. That supernatural precision is faked.

Go read the hundreds and hundreds of comments on any one of his videos. NOBODY is talking about the music...all they talk about is "OMG, you're an alien, how could possibly play those lines?" and the truth is....he didn't play them. At least not as you heard them.

Regarding the line for cheating.... Reverb & delay obviously aren't cheating, but moving notes, quantizing and using midi to trigger lines you can't play. Thats definitely cheating.
 

Miroslav L

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1,507
Anyway, I see "fast for the sake of fast" as a young man's game, primarily. I lost interest by the middle of HS. I got into punk, then reggae, then old blues, soul and R&B. I'm more impressed by Cornell Dupree and Hubert Sumlin than any given shredder. But I also recognize that it's a taste thing. To each their own.

And if your band's WHOLE THING is fast, technical metal, then speeding up the recording is BS.
Yeah, I agree.
It seems to driven by hormones, and the guitar pants-dropping and measuring, than it is by a deep feeling for the music. It's all about precision and speed...which I can appreciate to degree, and more so in athletic endeavors, though occasionally in some music passages where it's needed...but not as a total style, from start to finish, and always, no matter what the song.

Now I'm sure some will say "you don't understand Metal"...well, I really thought classic Metal was great, and played my share of it...but somewhere it all became too much about the gymnastics.
I listen to modern Metal drumming, and there's no musicality there, either...it's just an onslaught of speed-driven beats, so many and so fast, that the drums don't even have a chance to breathe.

Yes...that's maybe it in a nutshell...music has to breathe along the way, it's about the point and counterpoint...the high/low dynamics, etc...not to mention some melody and a harmonic bed.
When it's just a flat out speed race to the end...it really has no listening appeal to me, and frankly, it all kinda sounds the same. I have a hard time distinguishing one song from another....or what the point is of the songs.
 

CanserDYI

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1,128
J
Your argument about the music, what is music, hip hop uses samples, etc... doesn't really hold up here. Hip hop isn't pretending that they are actually playing the music. They are transparent in their practices. They make electronic beats and then rappers with great lyrical and rhythmic skill rap over them...live. MC's actually take great pride in their ability to improvise and spit over random topics and beats, if it ever came out that an MC was using electronic trickery to make it appear that he better flow than another MC... there would be uproar, that MC would get called out by his peers and they'd be over & done.

This Berry clown's videos don't showcase the music.....The music isn't the focal point. They showcase the playing, the almost supernatural technical precision in the execution of the parts. That supernatural precision is faked.

Go read the hundreds and hundreds of comments on any one of his videos. NOBODY is talking about the music...all they talk about is "OMG, you're an alien, how could possibly play those lines?" and the truth is....he didn't play them. At least not as you heard them.

Regarding the line for cheating.... Reverb & delay obviously aren't cheating, but moving notes, quantizing and using midi to trigger lines you can't play. Thats definitely cheating.
Good thing we're allowed to disagree, because I do. Good debate.
 




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