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Fargen Old 800 MKII Owners.. Questions

bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
Just wondering where you are running your settings for each mode and what tubes you are using? I'm new to the amp and wonder what the sweet spots are. I play both a Les Paul (with MCP Detroiters) and a Strat (Detroiter in the bridge).

Thanks in advance. I've seen many clips that sound fantastic but there are never any settings posted. Just trying to see how people dial 'er in and what glass they prefer. Thanks!!!
 

jpage

Senior Member
Messages
9,226
Not really a "settings" amp as far as I remember...I had one (50w head) for close to a year. Spent almost all my time on "70s", had the presence and treble goosed quite a bit and the gain around 2:00/3:00. Amp really shined when it was breathing and at that point (like most Marshalls) the TMB circuit becomes less relevant. I'll look around for a clip or two
 

freaksho

Member
Messages
3,998
yeah if it's anything like most other Marshall based amps the amp voice's is pretty much set. EQ's are more for making small adjustments to optimize for your speaker cab and the room. don't think of it like a Mesa or something. if the tone is close but not 100% where you want it then it's time to think about different speakers. and possibly for the last bit fine tuning: pups. but if the tone is really far off then it may not be the right amp for you.

and yes, have you tried cranking it? makes a huge difference, as with all Marshalls.

so what speaker(s) are you running with it? and what specifically is not quite right about the sound?
 

bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
Right now I'm running it through an Egnater MOD50 2X12 with a WGS Reeper and a WGS Liberator. This combo was suggested by Ben and it rips, albeit very loud.

I find the amp is just bone crushing loud, even at 25W, and the cab may play a part. I have a Mullard in V1, Raytheon Black Plate in V2 and a Sylvania Grey Plate in V3. JJ power tubes that came with the amp.

My only gripe so far is that it's a very bright amp and the bottom end is a little flubby. I'm having trouble getting the thicker/meatier tones I hear in clips. I have an attenuator (Rockcrusher) and I've tried using that to get the master and gain up without blowing the roof off, but I find it just makes things a little muddier at higher MV settings (6-7) and the tone isn't much different.

Since the amp is brand new, I'm thinking some burn in May be needed for it to mellow out and thicken up. It has Mojo Dijons throughout, so maybe they need some time to dial in. I was curious if others had similar experiences or if I'm just missing something.
 

guitarspaz

Member
Messages
901
I'm not familiar with those speakers but I'd start there. It loves greenbacks. Have you played it in a band context? You will appreciate the bright if you do. As for any low end flub just turn down the bass until it goes away. You will need more bass at lower volumes. But as stated, like most marshall's the tone is just there. You could set everything in the middle and it should sound about right and just tweak a little from there. If it is very far from what you want it might not be your amp.
 

jpage

Senior Member
Messages
9,226
Right now I'm running it through an Egnater MOD50 2X12 with a WGS Reeper and a WGS Liberator. This combo was suggested by Ben and it rips, albeit very loud. I find the amp is just bone crushing loud, even at 25W, and the cab may play a part. I have a Mullard in V1, Raytheon Black Plate in V2 and a Sylvania Grey Plate in V3. JJ power tubes that came with the amp. My only gripe so far is that it's a very bright amp and the bottom end is a little flubby. I'm having trouble getting the thicker/meatier tones I hear in clips. I have an attenuator (Rockcrusher) and I've tried using that to get the master and gain up without blowing the roof off, but I find it just makes things a little muddier at higher MV settings (6-7) and the tone isn't much different. Since the amp is brand new, I'm thinking some burn in May be needed for it to mellow out and thicken up. It has Mojo Dijons throughout, so maybe they need some time to dial in. I was curious if others had similar experiences or if I'm just missing something.
I agree with the posters who are wondering if you have the right amp. I didn't find the Olde to be that loud at all actually--definitely not more so than my older Marshalls. And it IS a Marshall-esque amp--cutting tone and "not so tight" bass is pretty much par for the course. Also hearing that you are running 25w and still are using an attenuator makes me think you may just have the wrong "tool for the job"...
 

freaksho

Member
Messages
3,998
Right now I'm running it through an Egnater MOD50 2X12 with a WGS Reeper and a WGS Liberator. This combo was suggested by Ben and it rips, albeit very loud.

I find the amp is just bone crushing loud, even at 25W, and the cab may play a part. I have a Mullard in V1, Raytheon Black Plate in V2 and a Sylvania Grey Plate in V3. JJ power tubes that came with the amp.

My only gripe so far is that it's a very bright amp and the bottom end is a little flubby. I'm having trouble getting the thicker/meatier tones I hear in clips. I have an attenuator (Rockcrusher) and I've tried using that to get the master and gain up without blowing the roof off, but I find it just makes things a little muddier at higher MV settings (6-7) and the tone isn't much different.

Since the amp is brand new, I'm thinking some burn in May be needed for it to mellow out and thicken up. It has Mojo Dijons throughout, so maybe they need some time to dial in. I was curious if others had similar experiences or if I'm just missing something.
hm. well a few more thoughts then:

800, in general
assuming the 800 in the model name refers to the JCM800, which i'm almost certain it does, then that might account for the bright issue as the Marshall JCM800 is known to be pretty bright, even kinda ice picky to some. what doesn't make sense to me is the flub problem because the Marshall 800 is also pretty darn tight for the most part (i used a 2204 for few years). but if you want seriously thick & meaty then anything 800 may not be the best way to go. remember: the 800 was made famous for 80's hard rock and hair metal tones, which i'd call more tearing & cutting than thick & meaty.



Speakers
the Reaper, being a pretty spot on G12H30 clone, should be nice and tight on the low end for sure and i think there is a general consensus about this, being a heavy magnet and all. and although some do report it to be bright, i actually find it quite smooth for OD tones, but i suppose that can be sorta amp dependent. i use the Reaper HP in two different cabs and love it for classic Marshall inspired tones.

so one unknown is that Liberator. i had one briefly and didn't like it. i don't 100% recall but i'm pretty sure i remember finding the bottom a little too soft and the top too buzzy & grainy. i actually replaced a 2xLiberator arrangement with a Reaper HP / V30 mix in my 2x12 and everything fell into place (this was with a Bogner GF45). so if you're willing to stick it out with the Fargen i'd try replacing the Liberator with a smooth & middy speaker like a Celestion G12-65 or something. and you probably want to stay away from the V30 as their high-mid harshness will only make matters worse in an 800 inspired amp.

and no Greenbacks if you want a tight bottom.


ok then, good luck and let us know how things progress. :)
 
Messages
1,409
For getting rid of flub, the bass should be set no higher than 9:00 (or even right off for old VH type tones).
Even with the bass off it still has some low end warmth to it with a closed back cab. Old Marshall's need to be dialed in the same way.

Just to humor me try these settings. It should be gainy and pretty tight (Marshall tight is still a little loose compared to modern amps)
80's mode
bass off (or near off)
mid 4
treble noon
presence to taste (you may like it off as well)
gain full
 
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bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
Will try those settings tonight.

I should add, it's not that I'm unhappy with the amp, just trying to find the optimal settings. I play 50W/100W Marshall style amps (Egnater Seminar Head / JVM) so I'm no stranger to loud amps.

The Master on this amp is very different from other amps I've tried. It seems to go from off to ON. It's not as gradual as I'm used to. Not a bad thing, just different. Much louder at lower settings.

I should also add my favorite tones are AC/DC, Free, Bad Company, Zep, Buckcherry, GNR, etc so they are all in the Marshall vien. This amp is intended to be my end all be all Marshally tones. I'm just get used to her and trying to find the sweet spots for these tones.

Thanks to all who have responded so far. I appreciate it.
 

jpage

Senior Member
Messages
9,226
hm. well a few more thoughts then:

800, in general
assuming the 800 in the model name refers to the JCM800, which i'm almost certain it does,
Actually while you would think that it does, according to Ben Fargen it does not.
 

jpage

Senior Member
Messages
9,226
Will try those settings tonight.

I should add, it's not that I'm unhappy with the amp, just trying to find the optimal settings. I play 50W/100W Marshall style amps (Egnater Seminar Head / JVM) so I'm no stranger to loud amps.

The Master on this amp is very different from other amps I've tried. It seems to go from off to ON. It's not as gradual as I'm used to. Not a bad thing, just different. Much louder at lower settings.

I should also add my favorite tones are AC/DC, Free, Bad Company, Zep, Buckcherry, GNR, etc so they are all in the Marshall vien. This amp is intended to be my end all be all Marshally tones. I'm just get used to her and trying to find the sweet spots for these tones.

Thanks to all who have responded so far. I appreciate it.
The Olde is a much different amp than the JVM (never owned a Seminar)--the JVM is MUCH easier to get a good low volume tone out of. The Olde is a gigging amp.

My experience with the Olde was that the three "decades" were not that much different at all from one another. I did not like the "80s" mode at all--thought it just added noise. To be honest, if I were looking for a "be all end all do it all Marshall" I'd get another JVM. Can you get a Buckcherry and/or GnR tone out of the Olde? Sure by cranking it up and throwing an OD in front. But that doesn't sound like an ideal scenario for you.

If you don't dig the 70s mode with the EQ straight up, you pretty much don't dig that amp. And if you are never going to get the master volume up past 10:00 it is straight up the wrong amp for you.
 

bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
The Olde is a much different amp than the JVM (never owned a Seminar)--the JVM is MUCH easier to get a good low volume tone out of. The Olde is a gigging amp.

My experience with the Olde was that the three "decades" were not that much different at all from one another. I did not like the "80s" mode at all--thought it just added noise. To be honest, if I were looking for a "be all end all do it all Marshall" I'd get another JVM. Can you get a Buckcherry and/or GnR tone out of the Olde? Sure by cranking it up and throwing an OD in front. But that doesn't sound like an ideal scenario for you.

If you don't dig the 70s mode with the EQ straight up, you pretty much don't dig that amp. And if you are never going to get the master volume up past 10:00 it is straight up the wrong amp for you.

Oh, don't get me wrong. This is intended to be a gigging amp. In fact, I got the. 25W because I'm tired of luggin around 100W amps that never really get utilized because every venue uses a PA to mic you up nowadays.

I have no issue with using OD pedals as well. I do in fact. My use of the amp is going to be dialing in a great classic rock tone (AC/DC, Free, Bad Company) and then goosing the amp up front for hitting more hard rock tones.

Again, I just was surprised by a few of the tonal characteristics of the amp in person and wanted to hear what others thought and how they were setting up the amp and using it.
 
Messages
1,409
For getting rid of flub, the bass should be set no higher than 9:00 (or even right off for old VH type tones).
Even with the bass off it still has some low end warmth to it with a closed back cab. Old Marshall's need to be dialed in the same way.

Just to humor me try these settings. It should be gainy and pretty tight (Marshall tight is still a little loose compared to modern amps)
80's mode
bass off (or near off)
mid 4
treble noon
presence to taste (you may like it off as well)
gain full
I just tried hooking up a 1x12 cab with a Celestion H30 in it (with above settings) and I didn't like it much with this amp. I wouldn't use an H30 type speaker with this amp, I prefer it's voicing with a Greenback.
I'm loving the Fargen with a Weber Legacy (Greenback) 30 watt speaker. Try that if you can as it's full, thick and balanced sounding, not thin or bright at all.
 

bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
Currently investigating getting a 1X12 with a green back to go with this amp actually!!!
 

bbaug14

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,501
Cranked it up tonight with the Master around 5-6 and the bass dialed back a bit. Had the Rockcrusher on and off to see the difference. Sounded fantastic. Dialing bass back made a huge difference. Also, the rockcrusher is awesome. 2 clicks back was just right and still sounded fantastic.

Thanks for the input guys. Can wait to try the 1X12 when it's ready.
 
Messages
1,409
Cranked it up tonight with the Master around 5-6 and the bass dialed back a bit. Had the Rockcrusher on and off to see the difference. Sounded fantastic. Dialing bass back made a huge difference. Also, the rockcrusher is awesome. 2 clicks back was just right and still sounded fantastic.

Thanks for the input guys. Can wait to try the 1X12 when it's ready.
Cool!
The Mini Plex MKII has really impressed me. Best tones I've had since I sold my '71 100 watt Super Lead 10 years ago.
Having three modes in this amp is like having three different great amps. Can't get bored with this amp.

60's mode is great for the Eagles and Joe Walsh and has a great clean tone. With a boost it also has a great brown sound.
70's mode is great for 70's rock - Kiss, Aerosmith, Zeppelin
80's mode is the big hair rock tones....pick squeal city.
 

guitarspaz

Member
Messages
901
Cranked it up tonight with the Master around 5-6 and the bass dialed back a bit. Had the Rockcrusher on and off to see the difference. Sounded fantastic. Dialing bass back made a huge difference. Also, the rockcrusher is awesome. 2 clicks back was just right and still sounded fantastic.

Thanks for the input guys. Can wait to try the 1X12 when it's ready.
I used to be guilty of setting my amp with my eyes and still am to some extent. I had preconceived ideas of what my setting should be. Now I try to use my ears. Sometimes I end up with "weird" settings. Last night was jamming with my miniplex at a buddies house. Old house with hardwood floors and high ceilings. When I got home I noticed my bass was almost on zero and treble was nearly maxed. Some of the best tone I remember having. Do what's right for the room and the songs. Turn those dials, you aren't going to hurt anything.
 
Messages
1,409
I used to be guilty of setting my amp with my eyes and still am to some extent. I had preconceived ideas of what my setting should be. Now I try to use my ears. Sometimes I end up with "weird" settings. Last night was jamming with my miniplex at a buddies house. Old house with hardwood floors and high ceilings. When I got home I noticed my bass was almost on zero and treble was nearly maxed. Some of the best tone I remember having. Do what's right for the room and the songs. Turn those dials, you aren't going to hurt anything.
Exactly.
I first started dialing it in like my old Marshall, mid way up. But I find staying around noon with the mid and treble is very balanced sounding for this amp. I just roll off bass to 9:00 or lower. I think that's a good starting point.
It also helps to have a great sounding guitar as you can really hear your guitar's tone with this amp. Each guitar I have sounds drastically different.

I actually wonder if this amp is really sensitive to the guitar's volume pot impedance. I have two strat type guitars that didn't sound that drastically different through other amps, but one sounds nice and defined with the Fargen while the other sounds like I have the tone pot turned way down, really dark sounding. Kinda strange.
 
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SteelerFan88

Member
Messages
791
I agree with the posters who are wondering if you have the right amp. I didn't find the Olde to be that loud at all actually--definitely not more so than my older Marshalls. And it IS a Marshall-esque amp--cutting tone and "not so tight" bass is pretty much par for the course. Also hearing that you are running 25w and still are using an attenuator makes me think you may just have the wrong "tool for the job"...
My Olde800 MkII is KRAZY LOUD !!! and the low end punchy & tight...go figure.
 




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