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fast pentatonics ... downward pickslanting

guitarnerdswe

Member
Messages
307
Not relevant to 2 note per string pentatonic patterns, IMO. It's a very different picking technique.
Yeah, I would generally advice against practising on only one string. You can definitely find yourself with good speed on one string, but unable to switch strings. String switching should be involved in any chunking pattern if the idea is supposed to go across more than one string.
 

Doomrider78

Member
Messages
3,811
Yeah, I would generally advice against practising on only one string. You can definitely find yourself with good speed on one string, but unable to switch strings. String switching should be involved in any chunking pattern if the idea is supposed to go across more than one string.
I seem to remember is was the Yoda of picking himself, Troy Grady, who said there is no magical exercise that will universally improve your picking: the mechanics are too job-specific for that. Therefore, if you want to improve at string changing, do exercises that involve string changes. Similarly, if you want to get good at playing 32nd notes on a single string, do that, but one won't help improve the other.
 

guitarnerdswe

Member
Messages
307
I seem to remember is was the Yoda of picking himself, Troy Grady, who said there is no magical exercise that will universally improve your picking: the mechanics are too job-specific for that. Therefore, if you want to improve at string changing, do exercises that involve string changes. Similarly, if you want to get good at playing 32nd notes on a single string, do that, but one won't help improve the other.
Super well put!
 

jackaroo

Member
Messages
4,533
Hi Dickie,

That sequence of playing 2 sets of two and then 4 notes on one string but overshooting the middle note so as to change directions is really a nice way of not having to rotate my hand and not just climb the scale. Even better would be being able to pick in an upward slant as fast and confidently as I can downwards!

So...Yeah I use whatever tools I have. This Guitar thing is tough! Especially alt picking 16ths above135bpm.

Some of our forum brothers are smoking fast pickers, I never really concentrated too much on speed. But more and more, I’m realizing if you can’t play fast there are some things I can’t do that I want to do. I know I’ll get there...but I wish there was a short cut.
 

Fowleri

Member
Messages
394
All i practice are 3 notes per strings woth pure alternate picking, anything else is a waste of time like 4 notes per string it just happens naturally as the way the pick lifts after the 4 notes

michael angelo batio all he ever practiced was 3nps

especially 3 notes per strings, one note on string below and again 3 notes per string above.

thats where people fail when you have to go from the 3 notes to the first note on the next string.

4th string
11-12-14

3rd string
11

4th string
14-12-11

This isolates the issue and if you practice thousands of time you become a perfect picker of 3 notes per string with pure alternate picking as it should be done

economy picking is a chicken way out
 
Last edited:

Doomrider78

Member
Messages
3,811
All i practice are 3 notes per strings woth pure alternate picking, anything else is a waste of time like 4 notes per string it just happens naturally as the way the pick lifts after the 4 notes

michael angelo batio all he ever practiced was 3nps

especially 3 notes per strings, one note on string below and again 3 notes per string above.

thats where people fail when you have to go from the 3 notes to the first note on the next string.

4th string
11-12-14

3rd string
11

4th string
14-12-11

This isolates the issue and if you practice thousands of time you become a perfect picker of 3 notes per string with pure alternate picking as it should be done

economy picking is a chicken way out
But that's the only AP you'll be good at.
 

Doomrider78

Member
Messages
3,811
false

if you defeat this demonm, you'll be good at everything else by default. I can alternate picking anything regardless if it starts up or down, regardless of the notes per string, etc
No, no you won't. If you watch any of the Troy Grady episodes, it becomes clear there is no one exercise to fix all your alternate picking issues: The mechanics are just too different. He even says so himself.
 

Fowleri

Member
Messages
394
No, no you won't. If you watch any of the Troy Grady episodes, it becomes clear there is no one exercise to fix all your alternate picking issues: The mechanics are just too different. He even says so himself.
The whole point is to force yourself to alternate pick everything, I never said you don't need other stuff. The whole point of this is that economy picking is a cheap way out, which is not beneficial in long run, and the reason why most shredders alternate pick everything. Gilbert, batio, and so many others.

I doubt your opinion is superior to Michael Angelo Batio, a super shredder who recommends that particular exercise I posted as the main exercise that he practiced thousands of hours over and over and contributed to his picking speed, especially on 3 notes per string. You can only play

- 2 notes per string
- 3 notes per string

the rest of the added notes are wash and repeat of the same, you either finish on an upstroke or downstroke.

Troy Grady episodes are crap, is just pure show for entertainment, everything he "taught" there, I was already doing by nature, downward and upward pick slanting, pick edging, etc, etc

If you didn't figure all this out on your own and needed someone to teach you this, chances are you ain't got good intuition or just a noob.

He makes these huge ass boring episodes of 2 hourS when everything he recommends could be summarized in 10 minutes.

this guy explains in 14 minutes what Troy Grady takes in 5 hours of his show

Troy Grady, notice how he NEVER teaches anything about the left hand, and yet somehow he is "cracking the code". He hasn't cracked anything, as anyone with any sort of speed, will naturally develop these pick slanting movements by nature without even realizing as is the only way to overcome these challenges.

That's how the pros did it.

He doesn't teach anything about the left hand, because any idiot can "fix" his picking technique, that's something that can be done in a matter of days, if not hours. Any schmock can tremolo pick fast on one note.

It's the left-hand speed and synchronization which takes years and years to develop. Why? Because is mostly your brain at work. It has nothing to do with left-hand strength, as there are 6-year-old kids that can play faster than 99% of adults here. It's all about the brain and neural connections. If you don't have good neural connections, well tough luck, you're gonna have to fight long and hard for each bit of improvement with the limited brainpower you have.

This is why most suck at guitar and can't play fast.

You can learn all these picking techniques and tricks, you can learn to tremolo pick fast on one note, it won't mean crap if your brain doesn't have the power to join everything at fast speeds. People struggle with playing fast because their brains can't hack it.

Practicing more will make your brain somewhat better at these struggles but up to a point. You can't overcome the brain limitations.

Same reason why people can spend their whole life practicing a sport and still be just plain average.


 
Last edited:

Doomrider78

Member
Messages
3,811
The whole point is to force yourself to alternate pick everything, I never said you don't need other stuff. The whole point of this is that economy picking is a cheap way out, which is not beneficial in long run, and the reason why most shredders alternate pick everything. Gilbert, batio, and so many others.

I doubt your opinion is superior to Michael Angelo Batio, a super shredder who recommends that particular exercise I posted as the main exercise that he practiced thousands of hours over and over and contributed to his picking speed, especially on 3 notes per string. You can only play

- 2 notes per string
- 3 notes per string

the rest of the added notes are wash and repeat of the same, you either finish on an upstroke or downstroke.

Troy Grady episodes are crap, is just pure show for entertainment, everything he "taught" there, I was already doing by nature, downward and upward pick slanting, pick edging, etc, etc

If you didn't figure all this out on your own and needed someone to teach you this, chances are you ain't got good intuition or just a noob.

He makes these huge ass boring episodes of 2 hourS when everything he recommends could be summarized in 10 minutes.

this guy explains in 14 minutes what Troy Grady takes in 5 hours of his show

Troy Grady, notice how he NEVER teaches anything about the left hand, and yet somehow he is "cracking the code". He hasn't cracked anything, as anyone with any sort of speed, will naturally develop these pick slanting movements by nature without even realizing as is the only way to overcome these challenges.

That's how the pros did it.

He doesn't teach anything about the left hand, because any idiot can "fix" his picking technique, that's something that can be done in a matter of days, if not hours. Any schmock can tremolo pick fast on one note.

It's the left-hand speed and synchronization which takes years and years to develop. Why? Because is mostly your brain at work. It has nothing to do with left-hand strength, as there are 6-year-old kids that can play faster than 99% of adults here. It's all about the brain and neural connections. If you don't have good neural connections, well tough luck, you're gonna have to fight long and hard for each bit of improvement with the limited brainpower you have.

This is why most suck at guitar and can't play fast.

You can learn all these picking techniques and tricks, you can learn to tremolo pick fast on one note, it won't mean crap if your brain doesn't have the power to join everything at fast speeds. People struggle with playing fast because their brains can't hack it.

Practicing more will make your brain somewhat better at these struggles but up to a point. You can't overcome the brain limitations.

Same reason why people can spend their whole life practicing a sport and still be just plain average.


Yes you did. Allow me quote you:

if you defeat this demonm, you'll be good at everything else by default
It is simply not true.
 

Fowleri

Member
Messages
394
Yes you did. Allow me quote you:



It is simply not true.
Well, Batio said that is the main exercise he did, doesn't mean you don't have to do others

that exercise in particular focuses in perfecting downward and upward pick slanting, plain and simple

once thats done, everything else becomes easier
 

jimipage

Member
Messages
480
Hey guys,

For those here who are into shredding and especially fast pentatonics.
Are you guys using the downward pickslanting technique Troy Grady and Ben Eller are talking about all the time?
Here's is a video of what I'm talking:

go to 09:30


Is this THE way to master fast pentatonics or how do you guys do it?

When I mention pickslanting to my jazz guitar teacher he has no clue what i'm talking about .... he"s never heard of it ... is this just pure a rock/metal thing or 'technique'?
Hey thanks for sharing! @SloeGin may I ask what you're using for your tone? Plugin? Amp? I really like the way it sounds on a video format!
 

DGA

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,338
The whole point is to force yourself to alternate pick everything, I never said you don't need other stuff. The whole point of this is that economy picking is a cheap way out, which is not beneficial in long run, and the reason why most shredders alternate pick everything. Gilbert, batio, and so many others.

I doubt your opinion is superior to Michael Angelo Batio, a super shredder who recommends that particular exercise I posted as the main exercise that he practiced thousands of hours over and over and contributed to his picking speed, especially on 3 notes per string. You can only play

- 2 notes per string
- 3 notes per string

the rest of the added notes are wash and repeat of the same, you either finish on an upstroke or downstroke.

Troy Grady episodes are crap, is just pure show for entertainment, everything he "taught" there, I was already doing by nature, downward and upward pick slanting, pick edging, etc, etc

If you didn't figure all this out on your own and needed someone to teach you this, chances are you ain't got good intuition or just a noob.

He makes these huge ass boring episodes of 2 hourS when everything he recommends could be summarized in 10 minutes.

this guy explains in 14 minutes what Troy Grady takes in 5 hours of his show

Troy Grady, notice how he NEVER teaches anything about the left hand, and yet somehow he is "cracking the code". He hasn't cracked anything, as anyone with any sort of speed, will naturally develop these pick slanting movements by nature without even realizing as is the only way to overcome these challenges.

That's how the pros did it.

He doesn't teach anything about the left hand, because any idiot can "fix" his picking technique, that's something that can be done in a matter of days, if not hours. Any schmock can tremolo pick fast on one note.

It's the left-hand speed and synchronization which takes years and years to develop. Why? Because is mostly your brain at work. It has nothing to do with left-hand strength, as there are 6-year-old kids that can play faster than 99% of adults here. It's all about the brain and neural connections. If you don't have good neural connections, well tough luck, you're gonna have to fight long and hard for each bit of improvement with the limited brainpower you have.

This is why most suck at guitar and can't play fast.

You can learn all these picking techniques and tricks, you can learn to tremolo pick fast on one note, it won't mean crap if your brain doesn't have the power to join everything at fast speeds. People struggle with playing fast because their brains can't hack it.

Practicing more will make your brain somewhat better at these struggles but up to a point. You can't overcome the brain limitations.

Same reason why people can spend their whole life practicing a sport and still be just plain average.


To be fair to Troy, he does cover synchronization in his material. That's what his whole "chunking" concept is about. Hand synchronization is literally the first thing he hits in the "Pickslanting Primer"
 

filtersweep

Member
Messages
4,621
I don’t know about pickslanting, but playing 3 notes per string was a big jump in speed for me with pentatonic scales. Gotta stretch a bit, though.
This is it- right here--- took me forever to figure out this is the secret sauce to runs that were impossible to figure out by ear. You simply cannot play half the crazy stuff with two notes per string in boxes. And there is usually loads of hammer ons and pull-offs. The right hand can sleep through half of this.
 

Doomrider78

Member
Messages
3,811
This is it- right here--- took me forever to figure out this is the secret sauce to runs that were impossible to figure out by ear. You simply cannot play half the crazy stuff with two notes per string in boxes. And there is usually loads of hammer ons and pull-offs. The right hand can sleep through half of this.
2 and 3 note per string lines are 2 different techniques, and you can get the 2 note runs fast, just look at Eric Johnson and Joe Bonamassa.
 




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