Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb 'Special Edition' vs. Standard reissue (or Jensen P12Q vs C12K)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by batfish, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. batfish

    batfish Member

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    Hi All,

    I have a '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue, all stock with the standard C12K. I like the amp and think it sounds great, and that includes the stock C12K speaker (which is kind of dark and has a nice, dry thunk to it on the low strings, but I'm terrible with tone adjectives).

    That said, the amp can be a bit much for my current playing situation. In a perfect world, I'd run the amp on '6' and roll back guitar volume for general playing and turn up guitar volume when I need a bunch of overdrive.

    However, in reality, I can only get the amp to about '4-4.5' before folks start complaining. At '6', and with guitar full up, its overpowering the rest of the band and we're running into feedback issues with the PA ( and frankly it's just too damn loud for a studio!).

    Anyway, I noticed that several big retailers sell a 'wine red' Deluxe Reverb and part of the marketing spiel with that amp is that it overdrives at a lower level due to the alnico speaker they have in it - a Jensen P12Q. So, I checked Jensen's website and indeed the P12Q is definitely less efficient than the standard C12K - 95db vs 99+ db. That's pretty significant and should, theoretically, allow me to nudge the volume of the amp a little more to get closer to the sweet spot. Not sure if it would make *that* much of a difference, but in my last project, I used a 18 watt Marshall with a 96db greenback and I could crank that up as loud as it would go - seems like the DRRI is significantly louder than that amp ( or this group of folks has more sensitive ears).

    My question is for anyone that has played both the C12K and the P12Q (or the special edition DRRI vs the standard one) at band levels and how would they compare the performance of those two speakers? Does the P12Q sound as good as the C12K, especially when volume is up a little? Is the P12Q make the DRRI actually, noticeably tamer or is this just 'on paper'.

    I'm considering ordering a speaker and giving it a try, but if anyone here has gone down this path, let me know!

    Thanks for any wisdom!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
  2. Stratobuc

    Stratobuc Member

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    Try pulling V1. You'll get overdrive at lower volume levels. Try playing with the amp on the floor so the speaker isn't beaming into people's ears. This has helped me. You can also put a set of power tubes in it that will break up earlier. Eurotubes can help you select some.
     
  3. batfish

    batfish Member

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    thanks stratobuc - plz forgive the dumb question, but will pulling that preamp tube effect anything on the vibrato channel? I use the vibrato channel exclusively because I use both verb and trem. I'll look into tubes. It has the stock power tubes that it shipped with, not sure if those are stout or not ( they seem to be haha) Thanks!

    ETA - I did put the amp on the floor and in a corner for last rehearsal but still got the stink eye when I cranked it to six and turned guitar all the way up.
     
  4. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    v1 only effect the "Normal" channel (which will be nonoperational with v1 pulled). If you pull that tube it will increase the gain in the Vibrato channel. I also find hitting Blackface-style amps with an always-on clean boost will help get more gain at a lower volume.

    Maybe someone else can answer this as I've never owned a Deluxe - Does the two knob tone section operate the same as on the three knob tone section on the Super Reverb? If so, there is a trick you can do as the Tone section effect the volume. You can turn both tone knobs all the way down, at which point you won't really be getting any volume. You can then turn up the volume to a level that you get the tubes working, and then tweak the tone knobs to tone/volume taste. This can help you control your volume on amps with this type of tone circuit (which as stated, I'm not 100% sure if the Deluxe Reverb has).
     
    strat62 likes this.
  5. Figaro

    Figaro Supporting Member

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    I like the C12K in the DRRI because it's a brighter sounding amp than most and the C12K's milder high end tames it a little. I probably would not like it in some other amps. In addition to breaking up quicker and not being as loud, the P12Q has a brighter sound and also less low end.
     
  6. shakeshakeshake

    shakeshakeshake Member

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    What kind of guitar do you play? I have one of the red wine with the p12q and its gotta be up around 6 to start overdriving with low output jazzmaster pickups, more like 5 with humbuckers. My limited edition seems to have a different volume curve where its really even all the way up to 10 in increase in volume. My previous DRRI seemed to get kinda maxed in volume around 5 and then just progressively more overdriven up to 10 with just a bit more volume on the way up.
     
  7. DiPa

    DiPa Silver Supporting Member

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    I really love my Fender DRRI amp, as a matter of fact played it last night for an hour, and was thinking that was the best $1.1K I had spent on an amp that gave me pleasure.
    It has a nice bright tone and I can get plenty warmth out of it as I dial it in. I used a Strat last night and plenty sparkly tones. The C12K sounds good to me.
    Light weight and easy to move.
    The sound is big enough to cut through a band mix, and I get a nice natural tube distortion out.
    Let us know how the P12Q compares.
     
    Figaro likes this.
  8. batfish

    batfish Member

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    For this project a Les Paul exclusively ( with vintage style humbuckers ). My DRRI starts to overdrive on about 4 with this guitar ( if I hit the strings hard), and there's a big volume increase between 4 and 6, where at 6 it's really nice and crunchy and has a lot of that great old Fender bloozy breakup. At 4 it's more than loud enough to play the clean parts to the songs at drummer volume, at 6 it's dominating the room. this is just in a studio, though, first show with this rig will be end of this month so I'm trying to get things sorted out before then :). I can always play louder at shows, but sometimes I think it's wiser to play at the same levels I practice at.... I'm really inexperienced so there're always surprises during the shows.
     
  9. caspersvapors

    caspersvapors Member

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    you can also swap the V2 tube for one that will overdrive quicker i.e. a Chinese tube
     
  10. LaceSensor1

    LaceSensor1 Member

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    I agree with this guy. With the Ltd version low output single coils will break up around 6 and hunbuckers around 4.75 to 5.

    If I were you I would look at some transparent overdrive like the timmy. Or if you like the mid hump, a ts9 pairs very well with this amp. I've not heard a ts9 sound better.
     
    InkStained likes this.
  11. InkStained

    InkStained Member

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    I have the wine-red DRRI. It's not for everyone. But it's for me.

    If sonic heaven were turned into a 42-lb box made of 7-ply birch plywood, it would be this amp.

    In fact, it is this amp.
     
    JS-29 likes this.
  12. swiveltung

    swiveltung Member

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    The C12K sounds pretty good in the DR. The P12Q will break up a lot more and may work for you though. To me it's exactly the wrong speaker for a DR... bright and spikey...especially those RI P12Q's. But I gig with a BFDR and never go over 3 on the dial... and get volume complaints there. It sounds like you need a real inefficient speaker if you want to dial the DR to 6. Of course, a DR doesn't get too much louder above 4-5 it seems to me, just breaks up more. SO there's your problem... the C12K is a clean bold speaker, you're dialing to 6 to get some dirt, by the time you do that you are too loud. get a speaker less clean and loud.
    Have you tried plugging into input 2? that will make it less loud.
    The TS9 or a "clean" boost that adds some grit will help also.
     
    Figaro likes this.
  13. picnic

    picnic Supporting Member

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    I've had several DRRI's and done all sorts of speaker swaps. My last one was all stock with a well broken in C12K. Amp sounded great, but I don't take it over 3 in my situation. OD comes from a Menatone Red Snapper. I tried a Weber 12F150 in it. I've had this speaker in other amps and been happy. I found the Weber was not an improvement on the C12K. Tones were almost identical.
     
    Figaro likes this.
  14. batfish

    batfish Member

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    guys, I just took my amp, guitar and all my pedals down to a guy that I take lessons from (local professional player who's played thousands of shows) and we dialed it in. The Amp 'opens up' at about 3.5 on volume and we ended up using a Klone and/or an OD808 for a small boost, just above unity. The OD808 sounded best with level cranked and overdrive down as low as it goes. With the Klone, we had the level and tone a little more than half way up and the overdrive off to get a small but noticeable boost. This might be obvious to a lot of you guys, but I never really have used pedals in live band situations (other than a treble boost for my Marshall), though I own 3 or 4 of them.

    He twiddled with the knobs to dial in what he would expect would be a good stage tone. Ended up pretty close to where I was running it in terms of EQ, but the guitar is now wide open where I had everything rolled back and where I had the volume of the amp relatively high to get grit from the amp, it's now down a notch lower on 3.5-4.0 and boosted when I need the grit

    I know I can get away with 3.5 and 4 on the volume no problem, so I'm going to try this method rather than the 'crank it and turn down the guitar' method. that worked great for my 18 watt Marshall for a different kind of music, but I think this will work better for this project, where a clean tone is 'base' with an occasional need for grit instead of a gritty, dirty tone all the time.

    So, in a nutshell, I'll keep the stock speaker for now - I do like it the way he dialed it in - esp. with the Klone boosting it slightly it has some nice punch and a little grit. I may add the OD808 for a solo boost and run the Klone for any song where I want the guitar more out out front. I've bought and sold many pedals but never really relied on them for overdrive in a live playing situation, so this will be interesting....
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
    LordByron likes this.
  15. LaceSensor1

    LaceSensor1 Member

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    I've just recently replaced the p12q in my drri Ltd with the stock c12k, here's my thoughts.

    I greatly prefer the c12k, it has a more compressed clean sound, and gets much louder while staying clean.

    The issue I was having with the p12q is that just past edge of breakup it would fart out on the low end. So if I set my amp to edge of breakup and then kicked on an overdrive it sounded farty.

    The p12q would be great if the c12k is too loud and clean for your situation. The p12q is also significantly less weight.

    I prefer the c12k because it sounds like a deluxe reverb to me. Also I like that tubey compressed sound the drri is know for. The p12q takes some of that sound away.
     
    JS-29 likes this.
  16. honeyiscool

    honeyiscool Member

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    I'm the opposite. I much prefer the P12Q. The greatly decreased weight is a plus, too.
     
    Soothsayer likes this.
  17. big mike

    big mike David Grissom Wannabee Staff Member

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    Stuck A Scumback M75-65watt in mine.
    Perfection
     

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