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Fender clean: Tweed vs Blackface

fewlio

Senior Member
Messages
435
Consensus is blackface fender cleans are the best.

My 59 fender bassman gives me the most musical, colorful clean tone I've ever heard.

I'm comparing to a Fender super champ xd on the 2nd chan...supposed to be like a blackface Princeton.

And before anyone wants to knock the champ for budget build or lower watt status, I had a hughes and kettner duotone 50 watt with an amazing clean. But the bassman beat it in my ears.

Do i deed to step up to a 65 twin or deluxe to make the definitive comparison?? I'd rather spare my back but I do love clean tones..

Eta: also looking for opinions on fender/ vs hiwatt custom 50 (or reeves equivalent)..
 
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myaudiodna

Member
Messages
2,604
I may be in the minority considering how many blackface lovers there are out there, but I just don't think you can beat the cleans of a high power tweed twin. I really have never been a fan of blackface cleans myself. If I had my ultimate stage rig I think it would be an Orange AD30 for gain and a high power tweed twin for cleans. Now THAT would be a large rig worth carting around. :cool::cool::cool:
 

blues

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,951
I had 2 Victoria 45410 amps. Very nice clean tones.

A well known pickup winder told me he liked 45410 my amp as much as his AC30
 

Hulakatt

Has done terrible things for a klondike bar
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,633
Actually it's really hard to beat a 59 4x10 bassman for cleans if we're honest
 

27sauce

Senior Member
Messages
37,204
I may be in the minority considering how many blackface lovers there are out there, but I just don't think you can beat the cleans of a high power tweed twin. I really have never been a fan of blackface cleans myself. If I had my ultimate stage rig I think it would be an Orange AD30 for gain and a high power tweed twin for cleans. Now THAT would be a large rig worth carting around. :cool::cool::cool:
Where are you, or anyone else, able to play a high powered Tweed Twin?!?

You own one?
 

27sauce

Senior Member
Messages
37,204
Consensus is blackface fender cleans are the best.

My 59 fender bassman gives me the most musical, colorful clean tone I've ever heard.

I'm comparing to a Fender super champ xd on the 2nd chan...supposed to be like a blackface Princeton.

And before anyone wants to knock the champ for budget build or lower watt status, I had a hughes and kettner duotone 50 watt with an amazing clean. But the bassman beat it in my ears.

Do i deed to step up to a 65 twin or deluxe to make the definitive comparison?? I'd rather spare my back but I do love clean tones..

Eta: also looking for opinions on fender/ vs hiwatt custom 50 (or reeves equivalent)..
I don't understand the question. Do you want another amp? If you're happy with the Bassman...
 

fewlio

Senior Member
Messages
435
Just trying to find the ultimate clean...I'm keeping the bassman under any circumstances..
 

27sauce

Senior Member
Messages
37,204
It's just such a personal thing. I don't generally like BF Twin, Showman, Deluxe, clean, but live vibrolux, super reverb and BF bassman clean.

I also dig, super leads, tweed band masters blonde showmans. Vibro kings, tone masters, concerts...

So many options. Try them all!
 

majorminor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,590
I like the cleans from my older Vibrolux and Super better than the Bassman LTD I had. I think a lot of that was just the smidge of on board tube reverb I like. Blackface and tweed also behave a little differently when gaining up slightly. I prefer the slightly pushed blackface tone a little more. Prefer the really pushed tweed tone a little more. Both different flavors of great.
 

Rick51

Member
Messages
3,736
Consensus is blackface fender cleans are the best.

My 59 fender bassman gives me the most musical, colorful clean tone I've ever heard.

I'm comparing to a Fender super champ xd on the 2nd chan...supposed to be like a blackface Princeton.

And before anyone wants to knock the champ for budget build or lower watt status, I had a hughes and kettner duotone 50 watt with an amazing clean. But the bassman beat it in my ears.

Do i deed to step up to a 65 twin or deluxe to make the definitive comparison?? I'd rather spare my back but I do love clean tones..

Eta: also looking for opinions on fender/ vs hiwatt custom 50 (or reeves equivalent)..
Personal preference rules here, I can't tell you what to like.

The 59 Bassman RI has excellent cleans, no argument.

For Fender BF cleans, it's the AB763 circuit you're looking for. Pre CBS Twin, Super Reverb, Deluxe (maybe), Vibroverb, any of the piggy-backs, you get the idea. The big ones, forget the Champs and Princetons. You want to be able to move a lot of air.

And don't waste your time on Super Champ XD or Hughes and Kettner. The people that have the real deal don't.
 

jota

Senior Member
Messages
11,017
My 5E3 doesn't have much clean sound but I love it's cleans!
Right now I'm more into my Deluxe Reverb because I need a bit more headroom.
Sometimes I think the Princeton Reverb would fit my needs better but for now I'll play the Deluxe's.
 

GenoBluzGtr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,333
I play both SF/BF and Tweed Bassman amps and I can tell you that the Bassman is nearly impossible to beat in a live mix. The SF/BF style amps are sweet, but they just lack "something"... you really don't notice it until you switch to the Bassman or someone else in the band has one... the "bloom" and balls of the Bassman Cleans are magical. Makes you disappointed when it's time for a break.
 

TheBuffalo

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,625
I think a guitarist using a blackface amp for rhythm and another using a tweed style amp playing leads just mixes so well. They fit like a glove together
 

gmann

Member
Messages
8,808
I like Fender BF's for cleans, esp. Twins and Super Reverbs. It doesn't get much better than that IMO. I love tweed and but I like for the way they break up esp. my '59 Pro which I've had for 20 yrs. On a side note I used to have a Marshall 1986 and a JTM50, both of which had amazing cleans but that's not really why you buy a Marshall I guess.
 

nmontz

Member
Messages
837
A super reverb would be a nice addition against a bassman....although both amps can be made to sound similar. Playing alone I like tweed cleans.....I do like the way bf amps sit in the mix. Having the reverb and trem on board is nice too! If I'm not worried about volume levels my absolute favorite clean tone is a tweed deluxe volume at 4, mic volume at 10 1/2....sucks the mids right out. Right after that I think princeton reverbs are cool. As you can see I think both tweeds and bf amps have great clean tones.......
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
29,047
You have to define clean… No guitar amp reproduces sound without distorting it. The distortion can be divided up into harmonic distortion (adding and subtracting partials or harmonics and inharmonic tones) and dynamic (increasing or decreasing volume). BF and tweed are different in both categories:

Tweed amps have much more midrange frequencies, which tends to increase harmonic distortion resulting in a warmer, more complex "clean" and a more gradual transition to distortion. In terms of dynamics, though, a tweed Bassman or Twin hits very hard, due to enough rectification, big transformers and lots of filtering.

BF amps cut much of the mids, so they don't have the complexity to the clean, or less baseline distortion. Their transition to distortion tends to be more abrupt. They share the big iron and the hard attack of the big tweeds, but take it to even a larger extent.

There are other kinds of clean: the Lab amps and Roland JC120 with their almost complete lack of harmonic distortion, big Ampegs, Sunns and Hiwatts with their HARD attack but complex mids. AC30s with an even more mid-focused clean, Mesa and Dumble with their compressed, sustaining cleans… How can you decide? Gotta have one of each!
 






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