Fender Tonemaster DR

Gasp100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
25,715
THINKING about trying this out. The clips (DI) sounds pretty great. I would like a nice amp at home and for sub / pickup gigs, rehearsals and auditions.
It’s like 25lbs with Jensen NEO and real pine cabinet.
The medium volume back line with FOH / IEMS for my main band gigs.
Anyone try these out?
Thoughts?
 

jmtaylor22

Member
Messages
1,160
I think it is a great concept. I always go towards a deluxe on every modeling platform I've used for clean and using drive pedal emulations. I also don't think you need a million features on these.

The one huge miss IMO on this is no effects loop. It would be so much more versatile if you could use 4CM with either a mutli effects box, or even something like the synergy preamp or victory pedals.

I am out without a loop. For me that kills it.
 

Guitardave

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,936
I think it is a great concept. I always go towards a deluxe on every modeling platform I've used for clean and using drive pedal emulations. I also don't think you need a million features on these.

The one huge miss IMO on this is no effects loop. It would be so much more versatile if you could use 4CM with either a mutli effects box, or even something like the synergy preamp or victory pedals.

I am out without a loop. For me that kills it.

Ditto on the lack of a loop. I'm probably game to pick one up in a few years for $400 though!
 

BrownNote71

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,205
I'm cool with delays and mods before the amp, but not verbs, so I'm ok without the FX Loop but the lack of Verb on both channels reduces its functionality and desirability a lot for me.

I guess those of us that want FX Loops and Verb on both channels are the minority, though. At least Fender thinks so. Unless their plan is to iterate on them and release an updated model in a couple years to re-milk their customer base.

I think the clear #1 hurdle for the Tone Master line's success is that they don't have tubes. The primary poo-poo'ing of these that I've heard in the "real world" is coming from tube fanatics who immediately frown when they hear they aren't tubed. Maybe Fender believes if they add too many changes from the existing DRRI and Twin that these tube fanatics will come in with full "shields-up" and fully close-minded. Time will tell.

There's still lots of myths too, over on the Amps forum there are people concerned about the inputs clipping because they're digital - I'm wondering how many of them have digital pedals and don't realize that "problem" is usually misunderstood (especially as those digital pedals tend to be mods/delays/verbs placed after their analog dirt which is what's goosing their gain).
 

mdubya

Member
Messages
1,260
One great thing about all in one modelers (Fractal, Line 6 , et. al.) is that you can build models to suit exactly what you dream of. Put the effects anywhere in the chain that you desire, put reverb, delay (tape, digital, analog, both) anywhere in the chain you want (before, after, both, between amp and cab, etc.), add tremolo to any amp, eq anywhere, try a million different IR's, and so on.

This is where these new Tone Master amps fall short for some of us.

I am sure they will sound great, though.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
24,791
No loop is a dealbreaker on any amp. The original doesn't have one I believe but this is supposed to be an updated modern version. I think. So add a loop or gtfo.
 

Gasp100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
25,715
I did not realized there was not a loop. I think for me I would probably approach this one as killer clean pedal platform but the fantastic additional of running direct into mixer for FOH / PA support. When I play at home it's almost always completely clean, maybe dig in for some dirt and usually guitar - cable - "amp".
I think a 25lb excellent sounding Deluxe Reverb that sounds and feels REALLY GOOD and can stay together longer, louder has it's place.
Totally honest, I'm bored waiting for the FM3.
The FM3 has limitations that I will have to deal with and I'm stuck with FRFR once it is in house. By far it's probably the most useful solution, but not necessarily the most fun / tactile / immediate gratification.
 

Watt McCo

Member
Messages
12,948
THINKING about trying this out. The clips (DI) sounds pretty great. I would like a nice amp at home and for sub / pickup gigs, rehearsals and auditions.
It’s like 25lbs with Jensen NEO and real pine cabinet.
The medium volume back line with FOH / IEMS for my main band gigs.
Anyone try these out?
Thoughts?

I'll take my own modeling combo over this - not stuck with only one amp, I get to pick the speaker, and houses my entire pedal board with loads of control functionality: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/my-28lb-helix-combo-amp.2072803/
 

Mark Al

Member
Messages
1,488
Normally, many people were often not able to push the tube DR to breaking up territory, so we get the dirt from drive pedals, followed by delay in front of the amp. With that setup, it’s not too big a deal having no effect loop, as the amp itself is just a clean canvas...

However, this new amp has lower wattage settings that allows users to push DR to break up itself which is one of its biggest selling point that many will want to leverage, NOW an effect loop is much more appropriate than putting delay in front of the amp!

And reverb is not available on both channels... Makes absolutely no pragmatic sense, all marketing BS...

I like the direction Fender is taking, eg high quality low weight digital amps. But I think its product team seriously underestimated the IQ of their vast user base... What a shame, regardless how well it’d sell eventually, these lame non-pragmatic design decisions are epic fails from my perspective.
 
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Gasp100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
25,715
Any digital + ss solution where all of the pieces are from different manufacturers have seemed to have a disconnected feeling and dry, unflattering sameness without proper sag and give. My AX8 + powerstage 170 + Marshall cab sounded and felt damn good, but not quite as good as a great tube amp(s). You always compromise something when shooting for variety and convenience in a single rig.
After a ton of testing all different setups I sometimes rather "give in" to digital + FRFR in most cases. Then have a completely separate analog rig for those times where I want to really enjoy the playing experience.
I figure when one manufacturer has total control of the entire signal chain they may have more success in trying to replicate reality.
Katana actually comes close, still a ridiculous deal for what you get in the box.
 

OPENYOUREYES

Member
Messages
1,644
Any digital + ss solution where all of the pieces are from different manufacturers have seemed to have a disconnected feeling and dry, unflattering sameness without proper sag and give. My AX8 + powerstage 170 + Marshall cab sounded and felt damn good, but not quite as good as a great tube amp(s). You always compromise something when shooting for variety and convenience in a single rig.
After a ton of testing all different setups I sometimes rather "give in" to digital + FRFR in most cases. Then have a completely separate analog rig for those times where I want to really enjoy the playing experience.
I figure when one manufacturer has total control of the entire signal chain they may have more success in trying to replicate reality.
Katana actually comes close, still a ridiculous deal for what you get in the box.
This is why i await an all in one model unit from each company-from preamp to speaker-2-12/stereo amp. I may die first though
 

TimH

Member
Messages
6,376
I think it is a great concept. I always go towards a deluxe on every modeling platform I've used for clean and using drive pedal emulations. I also don't think you need a million features on these.

The one huge miss IMO on this is no effects loop. It would be so much more versatile if you could use 4CM with either a mutli effects box, or even something like the synergy preamp or victory pedals.

I am out without a loop. For me that kills it.

Just come out of the DI with a XLR -> TRS cable into your delay and Reverb and out of your verb into a DI. Simple fix if you need you FX after EQ.

Curious...would the lack of a loop stop you from buying a DR or Twin?
 

ford

Modz
Staff member
Messages
14,060
I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with one of these once they start hitting the used market.

This is the type of thing I've always wanted from modeling. Simple... looks like an amp (why does that matter to me? I don't know, but it does) real amp controls... ( I hate scrolling or tweaking parameters on end)
 

ChrisVereb

Member
Messages
2,232
For those who would want a loop on this thing, where in the chain would you want it? If it's located between the modeled pre and modeled power amp, I'm not sure how much good that does you since the fender pre amps don't really tend to overdrive that much. You'd need to add an additional A/D and D/A stage and HW for not a lot of gain in my opinion.

If it's post modelling entirely, they could probably be modded to put a patch point right before the class D amp. You could even use the hole drilled for the standby switch on the back panel....since that serves no function on a SS amp. Get a 1/4" TRS shorting jack and just cut the signal wire connecting the main PCB to their class D module (assuming the pwr and modelling are on seperate boards). It would of course be nicer if it came from the factory pre-installed, but if that's the only thing keeping you from checking it out...it might be worth considering a mod.
 

jmtaylor22

Member
Messages
1,160
For those who would want a loop on this thing, where in the chain would you want it? If it's located between the modeled pre and modeled power amp, I'm not sure how much good that does you since the fender pre amps don't really tend to overdrive that much. You'd need to add an additional A/D and D/A stage and HW for not a lot of gain in my opinion.

If it's post modelling entirely, they could probably be modded to put a patch point right before the class D amp. You could even use the hole drilled for the standby switch on the back panel....since that serves no function on a SS amp. Get a 1/4" TRS shorting jack and just cut the signal wire connecting the main PCB to their class D module (assuming the pwr and modelling are on seperate boards). It would of course be nicer if it came from the factory pre-installed, but if that's the only thing keeping you from checking it out...it might be worth considering a mod.

For me I have a Helix, so can swap out preamps in 4cm and use effects. So for me a loop is a deal breaker. I would want it to be like a normal amp with the loop before the power amp. Or can use something like the synergy preamps or victory pedals. All of them essentially swap out the amp preamp for the pedal. Makes it much more versatile to me. There are several options to turn a 1 channel amp into 2 channels. But you don't want a preamp pedal running through the amps preamp.

Sure I could just run the Helix into the front for effects only, but not as interesting as an powered option.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
21,055
brilliant idea. Every other modeling product fails to truly capture the fender amp sound because their spring reverb implementation is so awful. How can you claim to do a BF Twin/Deluxe/Super and have a horrible spring reverb?!? It was never convincing to me. Also, after years of using FRFR cabs, I'll never do it again. Horrible sound. Most of the guitar's frequencies sit above the driver and come out of a teeny little speaker. So it's brilliant to design a modeling amp around an actual guitar speaker and then to do a great reverb on top of what (to me) sounds like a very good fender modeling sound. And 23lbs for a 100w amp? I'm in.

And you don't need a loop if you are not using overdrive in the preamp or poweramp. I think most people who want a fender aren't getting it for the high gain sounds. My rockett pedals blow away anything I've ever gotten in a modeler. I'm fine with no loop. I just want a simple tube amp emulator that sounds real without the latency...
 

hippietim

Member
Messages
6,772
brilliant idea. Every other modeling product fails to truly capture the fender amp sound because their spring reverb implementation is so awful. How can you claim to do a BF Twin/Deluxe/Super and have a horrible spring reverb?!? It was never convincing to me. Also, after years of using FRFR cabs, I'll never do it again. Horrible sound. Most of the guitar's frequencies sit above the driver and come out of a teeny little speaker. So it's brilliant to design a modeling amp around an actual guitar speaker and then to do a great reverb on top of what (to me) sounds like a very good fender modeling sound. And 23lbs for a 100w amp? I'm in.

And you don't need a loop if you are not using overdrive in the preamp or poweramp. I think most people who want a fender aren't getting it for the high gain sounds. My rockett pedals blow away anything I've ever gotten in a modeler. I'm fine with no loop. I just want a simple tube amp emulator that sounds real without the latency...

To me, the worst thing about Fender amps is the actual horrible spring reverb :)
 




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