Fender Tweed Twin 57 RI or Victoria Double Deluxe ?

[narapo]

I hesitate between those two HW Tweed amps that I can get for grossly the same price.

I play mostly Blues / Rock at low volumes (home / studio) ; the Low Power Twin should a bit louder than the Double Deluxe, with more headroom / less crunch I believe.

I already have a Tweed Champ Mojo clone, a Blackface VibroChamp and a Princeton Reverb II for low volume tones, and I want something a bit more powerful in the same Fender register. I have got other amps for the "Marshallesque" side (Fargen Mini Plex, Germino Lead55 & Matamp S2000 in waiting).

Has someone played them A/B ?

Any opinion is welcome.

 

[DannyDay]

I've not played the Double Deluxe but have played four of those Twins. The only advice I can offer is to play the Twin before you buy; and if possible, play several.

The ones I played all sounded _very_ different. Some were good, some sucked, one almost sounded great. I suspect the Victoria won't vary so much in quality or sound. I myself would love to try the Double. Let us know what you think. Please.

DD.

 

[Ridgeback]

I own a double deluxe and have played several of the 57 twin RI's. I like the 57 fine but I prefer the DD. It has just the right volume range for me and can go from tweed deluxe ZZ Top grind to gig-level clean\warm rhythm. The twin has wonderful tweed tones but did not strike me as being that flexible. I preferred my bassman for the "big and clean" tweed tone sound. This may not be a fair comparison because I have owned the DD for two years and only played the twin in the store showroom. Speaker breakin, tubes, etc can also make a big difference. My 2 cents.

 

[narapo]

That's a good point because I think there are not so much Double Deluxe out there and most of those who can answer to my question have the Victoria for some time, while many have tested the Twin 57 RI just a few minutes only at shops, with brand new speakers.

I am mainly concerned with the output volume ; is the Low Powered Fender Twin that loud as compared to the Double Deluxe ? using the 12AY7 in the preamp and a change of rectifier can reduce the volume a bit and give earlier breakup ; maybe I should use an attenuator.

 

[Taller]

Originally posted by DannyDay
I've not played the Double Deluxe but have played four of those Twins. The only advice I can offer is to play the Twin before you buy; and if possible, play several.

The ones I played all sounded _very_ different. Some were good, some sucked, one almost sounded great. I suspect the Victoria won't vary so much in quality or sound. I myself would love to try the Double. Let us know what you think. Please.

DD.

Could the tubes installed at Fender account for the variables in tone that you experienced? I mean, if you took two '57 Twins - one good, one not so good - and swapped tubes, might you end up with the 'not so good' one improved to a marked degree?

 

[MVrider]

The DD is 30 watts with a 5Y3 or 40watts with a 5AR4. The Twin is 45 watts with 2x12's. In terms of volume, the speakers will make a lot more difference than 5 watts of power...

 

[DannyDay]

Originally posted by Taller
Could the tubes installed at Fender account for the variables in tone that you experienced? I mean, if you took two '57 Twins - one good, one not so good - and swapped tubes, might you end up with the 'not so good' one improved to a marked degree?

Most certainly.

Also, I suppose any handwired amp will have differences. I've noticed the same thing in amps my friends own; especially the new handwired Fenders: 64 Vibro Custom, and the Vibroking.

It might sound crazy, but I _love_ checking out and trying amps and comparing the smallest of differences in them! Eventually I'll end up buying one, but I enjoy trying them out. I'm the sales guy's most annoying customer.

Yes, I'm sure the tubes make a difference.

DD.

 

[Curly]

I recently got a DD, and I've played the Twin.

to me, the kind of player you are will tell you which amp to get, as they are quite distinct ... the DD is a bigger Deluxe: soft to the touch, easily overdriven, very responsive, warm and smooth.

the Twin is of course more powerful, with a tight bottom, but still a warm tone with smooth highs ... Victoria's site refers to them as percussive amps. When I tested the Twin with a friend, we also listened to the Fender '57 Twin, and clearly liked the Vicky better, although the Fender is a terrific amp.

I'm more of a touch Blues player; my friend prefers kind of a fusion tone. I got a DD, he just got a Vicky Twin. I think that kind of points out the differences.

It's worth noting that there's always a certain amount of tweakage available in regards to tubes and speakers in tweed amps . . . I switched out V1 for a 12AY7 in my DD, which always seems to loosen the feel a bit without really affecting the final gain.
I also put Jensen P12Qs in mine instead of the Greenbacks that were in there when I got it.

I think if I got a Vicky Twin, I'd be tempted to try a P12N RI with a C12N RI, as it should give you both a tight bass and a singing highs.

good luck in your quest

 

[Ridgeback]

Curley, great description of the DD. After much playing around with mine I finally settled on a 5AR4 rectifier, 12AY7 in V1, and 25 watt Weber 12A150's (P12N's). I like the 5Y3 rectifier also but the 5AR4 seems to work better for rhythm playing while retaining "the good stuff" for leads.

 

[bluesbreaker59]

I'm sorry but for me its no contest. I'll take a new Vicky over a new Fender any day of the week. Mark Baier really has the Victoria line "dialed in".

BTW, I'm a very proud owner of a Victoria Double Deluxe. The sound is very organic, and earthy in my opinion. Sounds great with every guitar I've ever plugged into her.

The 57 Twin RI on the other hand sounded sterile and stiff to my ears, I tried to like it for a good 30 minutes in the store, and just couldn't.

On the other hand, I tried my Double Deluxe out for 5 minutes, and realized, it was perfect for me.

 

[SuperReverb2]

A couple points about the Fender 57 Tweed Twin. I have had mine since January, and the change in that amp since it was new, until now, is like night and day. The Weber designed, Eminence made speakers, are EXTREMLY stiff, sterile, and "crisp" sounding right out of the box, and that could certainly account for some of the discrepencies that have been reported. (i.e. some have been played more than others) Once they break in though, WOW!! Secondly, the original design came with 12AY7's in the first three postions, while the "reissue" comes with 12AX7's. I have since retubed mine with NOS RCA 12AY7's in the first three positions and again, (to my ears anyway) the difference is quite noticeable, especially with my Heritage 535 and Les Paul. I found the "stock" tube compliment "OK" with single coils, but with the humbucking equipped guitars I primarily use, the Tweed twin just got too loud, too fast. IMHO, it's a MUCH more versatile amp with the 12AY7's.
Should this amp "sound" better out of the box? Maybe, but I'm 53 years old and I seem to remember the original "brand new" Fender amps sounding a little tight (sterile) and crisp right out of the box as well. Some people seem to forget that fact when they compare a nicely aged (and cared for) 40 year old amp to a brand new production reissue.
I have not had the pleasure of playing a Victoria amp, and I'm SURE they are GREAT sounding amps. If Mark has found a way to make his amps sound "aged" right out of the box, then more power to him. Personally, I'm glad I chose the Fender version, and I'm glad that I gave it a chance to break in and really see what it can do.




Chuck

 

[gizmo]

SuperReverb2 makes a good point about the speaker break-in on the '57s. I recently played a well-demo'd floor model and was immediately taken aback by glorious rich tone. I'm not going to try to explain tone with words because I just can't :Spank but it immediately reminded me of my '61 Deluxe but with a more full tonal range - not quite as compressed and midrangey as my 6v6 1x12 Deluxe. I attribute this mainly to the 6L6s and the 2x12 speakers although I'm sure its the totality of all the different components.

Sorry...no exp with the Victoria though.

 

[narapo]

Thanks for all the answers ; I have tested in store a Twin 57 and it seemed in fact a bit dull.

Finally, I have won the Victoria DD on ebay. I will post back when I will receive it.

 

[bluesbreaker59]

You'll love the Vicky, I guarantee it.

 

[telecasterrok]

Ok. I'm a long time lurker here, but this is one topic I feel completely qualified to comment on--although I realize that you already made your decision. I've owned a victoria double deluxe for about 2 years, before that I owned a savage rohr and a 'real' 1965 super reverb, a drz prescription, and an orange half stack. Recently, I've been looking into the tweed twins--because I am now playing a fender rhodes piano in addition to electric guitar and need a little more tightness in the lower registers that only a big watt amp can supply. So, a buddy of mine lent me his new 57 twin for a couple weeks. I took it to about 4 gigs and several rehearsals. I really did appreciate the 57 twin for its solid end, but the overall tone was murkey, nasaly, and stiff. Actually, played next to my bandmates joeschmo fender bassman ri, The 57 twin sounded dull, whereas the bassman sounded big open and beautiful. I might try the victoria 50212, but the double deluxe just sounds SO GOOD. Really, the DD has the perfect stage volume, is a portable 212, simple and easy to fix, and the best tone of any amp I've owned. sorry to gush, but it is a fantastic amp! I've got the c12s in mine, so I might experiment with some speakers before I try a 50212. Any one have speaker suggestions? Something with a tighter low end and louder would be great.

 

[AD]

A fellow gear pager that has good ears a/b'd the vicky and the '57 twin at a store and his favorable opinion was towards the '57. So, i bought a used one - really sweet amp - it really shines w/ single coil axes (My LP kinda farts out at 7 + volume).

I've only owned a Vicky 20112 and thought it was great also. Can't lose with the DD or '57

 

[narapo]

Thank you for that comment.

I have got the DD and it plays fantastic. The interaction between the two channel volume knobs (even without bridging the inputs) is amazing.