Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by jzucker, Apr 17, 2016.
looking at a koll in the emporium and wondering what the difference is?
Saul Koll had his own shop.
Then he joined up with PBG, a builders' guild. I don't believe that the Kolls made during that period were built by Saul.
He is no longer with them and making his own stuff again.
Fano is no longer with them either....he's on his own again, building guitars under a different label "Novo"
The PGB Koll's were "team built", I believe, not by Saul himself
ok, thanks for the info! I've always wanted a koll superglide but I guess I need to make sure Saul built it?
Then I think you want either "pre" or "post" PBG
Saul is a member here, maybe contact him for some clarfication(?)
I have a Koll built by PBG. Love it.
From what I heard, the PBG Kolls are just fine. It's not like they had hack building them. But from a resale perspective I think the ones built by Saul fetch a premium.
PBG was an interesting thing - they owned both Fano and Gene Baker's B3 company, and they had Koll, Roger Giffin, Jason Schroeder and Johann Gustavsson under a licensing deal. Baker's B3 company was the PBG factory - so all PBG-built guitars were built by Gene Baker and his team. They built all the PBG-era B3s (or course) and probably 99% of all Fanos while Dennis was still with them (he left in mid-2014 to start up Novo Guitars). The license-arrangement builders provided them with a couple of models while they continued building other models themselves. Except for Koll most of the licensing builders dropped out pretty early - Schroeder lasted about a year, Gustavsson maybe 18 months, and Giffin through 2012. Koll was with them until early 2015.
Koll was building everything but the Glide models himself - if you're looking at a Tornado, he built all of them, along with anything really one-off. All Jr. Glides were built by PBG during this time frame, as were the majority of Glides and SuperGlides. All the Troubadour models were built by PBG outside of the prototypes during this time as well. Except for the earliest PBG Jr. Glides the PBG models will have a decal on the back of the headstock that indicates they were made in Arroyo Grande, CA (Saul is based in Portland).
Design by Saul, overseen by Saul.
If it is a guitar you like with the price and specs does it lose attractiveness just because other fingerprints were on it besides his?
I know you buy and flip a bunch, Jack. If it is about resale value, then you will pay more for a Saul only guitar than a PBG Koll, but then it is worth more when you sell.
As others have said, a PBG Koll will be amazing. I have two Kolls that were built by Saul himself, but I've played PBG Kolls on several occasions, and they were great -- just not built to my specifications (neck width and shape, etc.).
The problems that caused the PBG cluster**** weren't because the guitars weren't well made... It was the business practice and questionable marketing that caused all the problems. Which was obvious by the builders jumping ship like the titanic LOL... There are tons of threads on that debate. PBG was not well received by many buyers.
The actual quality of the instruments wasn't ever a question.
That said, PBG guitars will always take a financial hit due to the negativity attached to the PBG designation. And considering how important the builders name is with small builders, its not surprising. Most people buy a Gustavsson because it was actually built by Johan or a Koll because of Saul.
Its not just the art, its the artist who did it that counts to many. But you can save some money and get a nice guitar if you don't care.
I can say that PBG/Arroyo put out quality stuff from every "name brand". I couldn't find a better quality guitar in the $2000 price range. I have three.
As for PBG/SoCal, no experience yet.
Saul never stopped building custom spec guitars or his many one off creations ...The PBG guitars as stated above were the standard glide models. My custom Ultraglide was built during the PBG years and only Saul touched it.
Man, if its a PBG Koll in the Emporium and it fits your specs, get it. You can probably get it for a little less and it will still be as good as a guitar gets. Saul is a pretty good friend of mine and I can say that he now has at least 2 PBG Koll's *himself* and loves them.
I choose to buy spec'd Koll's because I dig the process and none of the PBG Koll's meet my specs... But if they did and one came up I would get it myself.
The honeymoon period is still in effect but I just picked up a PBG Troubadoor and it's a fantastic guitar and exceeds my expectations.
I've been playing mine a ton.
From what I know if the neck is not
Printed with anything on the back it's a Koll built guitar
I have three as as well 2 sp6's one retrosphear love them all
Not quite that straightforward. As John C said in post #8:
I own a Jr. Glide that is the fifth Koll made by PBG, and it has no decal. Fantastic guitar. For me, I'd wish for a less substantial neck, body contours, and lower overall weight. I guess I wish it was a Tornado.