Fill me in on these trendy new Far Field IRs

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by james..., Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    More to the point, Do you really think you NEED to recreate the sound of recorded guitar on a record? Do you really think any IR will enable you to recreate the sound of recorded guitar on a record?
     
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  2. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Actually, he got it about right.
     
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  3. Lord N

    Lord N Member

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    Since the initial point was exactly that. Yes. If you want to recreate the sound of a record you need to recreate the sound of a record or you will never have what you want.
    Should be obvious to anyone. "If you AIM to RECREATE that sound..."
    What sounds i personally go for when i record was neither the point nor the question. Unless i mess around at home, i rarely record with any kind of IR anymore.*
    I always appreciated it when you talk to other people and not to me, let's keep it that way.

    If 'about right' means 'almost everything misunderstood' then yes, he was totally 'about right'.

    * Edited because of jumping through hoo.... errr... jumping to conclusions by a particular member.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  4. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    IOW, the entire subject of IRs is largely irrelevant to you, and your experience using them is very limited. I'll keep that in mind....
     
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  5. Lord N

    Lord N Member

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    I didn't say or imply that that my experience of using them is limited. But that you jump to conclusions so quickly is something i'll keep in mind.... no wait... i won't.
    After all, i made and used countless of them but nowadays... you know how it is, we use what works or sounds best for us. At least some of us do. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  6. Elric

    Elric Member

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    I did this and Jay didn’t respond. Why is he asking people to PM him anyway? Why can’t he just post them?

    He goes on and on about FF IRs, we have literally been talking about this here for years on end; but to date, really, there are almost none available anywhere (to their credit, FAS did make a recent attempt), and to hear him talk he is the only person who knows how to properly shoot one.

    So, even if they do work miracles, if they are virtually unobtainable, they aren’t much of an answer for anyone but Jay himself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  7. hippietim

    hippietim Member

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    The point of that thread was not really to be a vehicle for distributing FF IRs. The idea was to share some knowledge and provide some data to show what to look for in a properly captured FF IR. I would assert that the thread accomplished that. Getting some high quality IRs in the process was a bonus.

    Nowhere has Jay said he’s the only person capable of doing this and he has certainly conveyed a wealth of knowledge for those interested in learning.
     
  8. burningyen

    burningyen Member

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    Clearly he would like to know who has them. I can think of a couple of good reasons why.
    It seems to me he's been pretty open about the resources and techniques. Guys like antcarrier and gigsup have already done it successfully.
     
  9. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    "When you make an IR you don't get the ongoing reflections unless you have a big enough room"

    Paraphrasing - "you get 2x the amount of reflections as in a close-mic'ed recording"

    This is correct information?
     
  10. Pedro58

    Pedro58 Member

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    Still unavailable in .wav format?
     
  11. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    That is not what is in that post now: "When you make an IR, you get the reflections of the "ongoing" recording unless you have a big enough room." That is correct. Perhaps he made a typo and edited it. My reply to you was based on what was in his post when I read it.
     
  12. MIJLOVER

    MIJLOVER Member

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    I received them in that format. :)
     
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  13. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    You've edited the bit about the room, but the bit about reflections is still jacked up.

    "That is 2x the amount of reflections vs. what were in those recordings you mentioned that've been fine for so long".

    No. Using an IR of 20-500ms will always result in less reflections than a recording made by capturing the sound directly with a microphone placed close to the speaker. The real-time capture of the cab with a microphone will include all of the reflections of the recorded space. An IR captured with the mic in the same spot on the cab in the same room will capture only the characteristics of the reflections that reach the microphone within the time-window of the IR capture (20-500ms). An IR captured in a reflection free environment will include no reflections.

    So neither IR is all that close in terms of absolute objective "accuracy" for trying to mimic the process of recording a guitar in a small room with a microphone placed close to the speaker. The question FOR THE PERSON TRYING TO RECREATE THE SOUND OF A GUITAR CAB RECORDED IN A SMALL-ISH ROOM WITH A MIC CLOSE TO THE GRILL is then a subjective question for the end user. Which inaccuracy is more tolerable? Which one better approximates the characteristics of a close-mic'ed cab that they're trying to achieve? At the moment, as far as I know, there are no available close-mic'ed reflection free IRs captured with microphones folks usually use in the studio to close-mic a guitar cab, so the question is moot at this stage.

    All of this is to say that, for Jay's purposes -- which is to capture the sound of a speaker cabinet so that an accurate monitor can sound like that speaker cabinet -- getting rid of reflections is important.

    For other applications, getting rid of reflections is less important and indeed may be counterproductive. I would hazard a guess that every recording ever made includes reflections in it. Our ears are accustomed to hearing a recording that includes reflections being played back in a room that then adds its own reflections, etc. As guitarists, we often do this in a live playing context on purpose by including a reverb effect in our guitar signal chain so that even if our guitar isn't being mic'ed we're still getting a "reflections of reflections" experience.

    One can of course add whatever reflections one wants to a reflection-free IR. But if the goal is to mimic the sound of a close-mic'ed cab, then the reflections that will need to be added will include at least floor bounce which will require the reflections to be added via convolution reverb...and if you can run a convolution reverb than you might as well just run a several second close-mic'ed IR of the guitar cabinet.
     
  14. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    It is exactly what was written in the text that I quoted, so it appears it was edited after my comment.

    The 2x reflections using an IR vs a real-time recording with a microphone of a guitar cabinet still seems inaccurate to me.
     
  15. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    I asked this in the other thread and you felt it was distracting:

    I'll ask it in a less cluttered way here: if your goal were to best recreate the sound of a cab close-mic'ed in a small-ish room on a modeler (i.e., you're limited to sub-second IRs), how would you go about doing that? I realize that's not a goal you ever shoot for, but for better or worse its a goal that plenty of folks do shoot for.
     
  16. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    IOW, neither one is the ticket for a tone-obsessed bedroom player who has no real idea how actual recordings were made.

    Ooh, ooh, I know! The question is "why are you so obessed with trivia that's not going to make you sound like your hero?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  17. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    For someone that likes to call out trolls...
     
  18. Lord N

    Lord N Member

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    I'll keep in mind what "about right" means to him.
     
  19. Gearzilla

    Gearzilla Member

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    That summation really captures my journey with do it yourself handyman household repairs.

    Though the expertise portion is still a work in progress.

    :)
     
  20. Pedro58

    Pedro58 Member

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    I stand corrected. All I had seen were the ones Alec posted. I guess I'll contact Jay.
     
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