First thread ever of its kind, never been done before... Shredders - 80s vs Now

Rtee

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Messages
66
I'm a mid 70s baby, grew up all through the 80s LOVING bands like Def Leppard, Dokken, White Snake, the Crüe, Skid Row, ect. so I am definitely bias here but my take is that the shredders of those times in their prime smoke the ones coming up in today's era... I love so many but if I had to pick one... George Lynch in his prime. Monster!!!!!


Tell me what you guys think and who are some your favs??
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
NUNO! The biggest difference is a lot of the 80's guys actually got on the charts.


Nuno is one bad MOFO, Def had his own funky vibe... I was reading a producers review and the days of the ADA MP1 and talked about all the guys that were prominent in those days, in his opinion Nuno was in a league of his own. Unlike others I loved back then, Nuno is still going full on and getting better as others just got lazy, uninspired or plagued by hearing loss, ect.

This is why I love Lynch so much :




Love his phrasing esp... but when he was on, its magic to my ears

Here's another :

 
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Rtee

Member
Messages
66
Warren DiMartini FTW.

Sad he couldn't have had a more efficient singer/front man. Ratt n' Roll documentary is one of my faves to watch, watch it again recently.

I have a DeMartini patch saved on my gsp1101 as "Dirty DeMartini" and it's almost spot on to his tone on "Lay it Down" when he switched to Soldano SLO 100s
 

willyboy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,643
I'm a mid 70s baby, grew up all through the 80s LOVING bands like Def Leppard, Dokken, White Snake, the Crüe, Skid Row, ect. so I am definitely bias here but my take is that the shredders of those times in their prime smoke the ones coming up in today's era... I love so many but if I had to pick one... George Lynch in his prime. Monster!!!!!


Tell me what you guys think and who are some your favs??

A good chunk of my teen years were in the 80's so I too have a fondness for that period's style of playing but in no way would I say the 80's shredders smoke the ones of today. I love Lynch, EVH, and all that stuff. There's definitely been an evolution of the tapping and sweeping stuff that began in that period, and there are a lot of players today playing stuff technically that wasn't happening in the 80's. It's not that it's better, but in general I just see more players today that are faster, more precise, more technical than many of the players of the 80's. Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abassi, Petrucci and others come to mind. Even some of the guys who were around in the 80's have progressed further technically, guys like Vai, Paul Gilbert. There are a lot of guitar players playing insane stuff today that I could have never concieved of back in the 80's. In my mind guitar isn't an Olympic sport, it's a method of expression. I get just as inspired and am equally blown away listening to EVH or Guthrie.
 

TCMx3

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Messages
2,504
A good chunk of my teen years were in the 80's so I too have a fondness for that period's style of playing but in no way would I say the 80's shredders smoke the ones of today. I love Lynch, EVH, and all that stuff. There's definitely been an evolution of the tapping and sweeping stuff that began in that period, and there are a lot of players today playing stuff technically that wasn't happening in the 80's. It's not that it's better, but in general I just see more players today that are faster, more precise, more technical than many of the players of the 80's. Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abassi, Petrucci and others come to mind. Even some of the guys who were around in the 80's have progressed further technically, guys like Vai, Paul Gilbert. There are a lot of guitar players playing insane stuff today that I could have never concieved of back in the 80's. In my mind guitar isn't an Olympic sport, it's a method of expression. I get just as inspired and am equally blown away listening to EVH or Guthrie.

IMO today there are probably an equivalent absolute number of people with both the skills and the musicality, but the bottom fell out of the market so to speak so today it's much stronger on average. also with the change in musical trends, now it's done to suite the music and not just to have a twiddly bit in the middle.

I will say one area the 80s guys have it on lock is the whole shtick. Outfits, ridiculous paint jobs on the guitars, fast cars, big hair, etc. all really add to the vibe and as such while I don't think theyre any better or worse many of my favorites are of that time because they are of that time.
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
A good chunk of my teen years were in the 80's so I too have a fondness for that period's style of playing but in no way would I say the 80's shredders smoke the ones of today. I love Lynch, EVH, and all that stuff. There's definitely been an evolution of the tapping and sweeping stuff that began in that period, and there are a lot of players today playing stuff technically that wasn't happening in the 80's. It's not that it's better, but in general I just see more players today that are faster, more precise, more technical than many of the players of the 80's. Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abassi, Petrucci and others come to mind. Even some of the guys who were around in the 80's have progressed further technically, guys like Vai, Paul Gilbert. There are a lot of guitar players playing insane stuff today that I could have never concieved of back in the 80's. In my mind guitar isn't an Olympic sport, it's a method of expression. I get just as inspired and am equally blown away listening to EVH or Guthrie.
Aside from Abbasi I consider everyone you mentioned of the same genre, Petrucci was around in the 80s and shredding already though he wasn't officially discovered till 92' (ish???) When 'Pull me Under' hit radio. Same with Govan, he is part of that generation as he was around as a session player, Gilbert was in Racer X in the 80s (Mr Big first album was 1990?) with stints at GIT but nonetheless part of the same genre/generation.

Imho Abbasi though good doesn't move me at all, he's robotic to my ears without really bringing anything new to the table.

The reason I believe 80s guys were/are better when talking thier prime vs now is more than the absolute control they had over their instruments, they also imo brought a sense of musicality to it as well, the human aspect... not sounding robotic as so many shredders coming up now sound to my ears. There is playing the note, and then there is playing note with feeling and with a DNA attached to it... it's like funk music, it's not so much that funk is technically difficult from a muscle memory aspect, the tough part about funk is taking that progression and making it sound a certain way. Petrucci imo suffered from the same thing early in his career imo, he was fast as hell, technically very sound but way too mechanical for my taste but here I think he has shown absolute maturity towards a more organic sound...



Another example I could use is the common comparison of Vito Bratta to EVH. I love them both and you can hear SOOOO MUCH influence that Eddie had on Vito and though they were on the same level of technical prowess Eddie brought something a little in his attack, the way he would add the slightest of pitch altering bends in notes of blazing staccato and legato work, not to mention his two handed fret board work.

I don't think the players today are any faster at all compared to yesterday's players, as a matter of fact I can't think of any that are as fast as Gilbert, and especially not Yngwie... no one picks faster than him in today's climate.

A lot of young players are so fixated on sweep technique today and do it well but again it isn't nearly as musical as when Frank Gambale, another 80s phenom, did it 30 years before them and did it more accurately and faster...

Of course as I said in the op, my heart lies in that time, and it's just my opinion from what I hear.
 
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Rtee

Member
Messages
66
IMO today there are probably an equivalent absolute number of people with both the skills and the musicality, but the bottom fell out of the market so to speak so today it's much stronger on average. also with the change in musical trends, now it's done to suite the music and not just to have a twiddly bit in the middle.

I will say one area the 80s guys have it on lock is the whole shtick. Outfits, ridiculous paint jobs on the guitars, fast cars, big hair, etc. all really add to the vibe and as such while I don't think theyre any better or worse many of my favorites are of that time because they are of that time.


Yeah, again I find today's shredders to be much less musical in thier phrasing than the guys before them.. Tony Macalpine, Dave Murray and Adrien Smith, Marty Freidman, Chris Poland (technically up there with Govan and Def faster), Glen Tipton (his sweep technique/phrases are as musical as anything I have ever heard).
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
A good chunk of my teen years were in the 80's so I too have a fondness for that period's style of playing but in no way would I say the 80's shredders smoke the ones of today. I love Lynch, EVH, and all that stuff. There's definitely been an evolution of the tapping and sweeping stuff that began in that period, and there are a lot of players today playing stuff technically that wasn't happening in the 80's. It's not that it's better, but in general I just see more players today that are faster, more precise, more technical than many of the players of the 80's. Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abassi, Petrucci and others come to mind. Even some of the guys who were around in the 80's have progressed further technically, guys like Vai, Paul Gilbert. There are a lot of guitar players playing insane stuff today that I could have never concieved of back in the 80's. In my mind guitar isn't an Olympic sport, it's a method of expression. I get just as inspired and am equally blown away listening to EVH or Guthrie.

"Smoke" was probably a bad word to use, it sounds dismissive and elitist. Def should have expressed it differently... and on the inspiration factor I totally get what you're saying. I would say Govan is in a league of his own as far as his musical phrasing and the crazy things he hears in his head and translates to his music, his musical mind is unbelievable.
 

fishruss

Member
Messages
874
Not a big Winger fan, but Reb Beach's playing is just fantastic in that late 80s era of the band.
Also agree 100% on DeMartini. Try as I might, I can't get Round and Round down correctly!
 
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DeMartini is the man, one of my favorites from that era.

I'm not sure I agree about the newer players not being as impressive though, I think generally the talent level has only risen. That said, I probably still listen to more stuff from the 80's than any other decade.
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
Not a big Winger fan, but Reb Beach's playing is just fantastic in that late 80s era of the band.
Also agree 100% on DeMartini. Try as I might, I can't get Round and Round down correctly!


You're having trouble nailing his tone or his phrasing?
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
DeMartini is the man, one of my favorites from that era.

I'm not sure I agree about the newer players not being as impressive though, I think generally the talent level has only risen. That said, I probably still listen to more stuff from the 80's than any other decade.


I admit that my bias is likely to to be 99.9% of my perspective on the comparison. Lol
 

s2y

Member
Messages
20,604
In no particular order: George Lynch, DeMartini, Sykes, Jake E. Lee, Viv Campbell, Reb Beach, Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson, Nuno, Vito, etc. I thought the cool part was that they each had their own tone, technique, and very flashy styles.

George Lynch was a particularly good/bad influence on me in the gear department. Each wild guitar solo had an even wilder guitar! That's a little more fun than "less is more" guitarists who stare at their shoes or guitarists trying to sell signature sunglasses. ;)
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
In no particular order: George Lynch, DeMartini, Sykes, Jake E. Lee, Viv Campbell, Reb Beach, Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson, Nuno, Vito, etc. I thought the cool part was that they each had their own tone, technique, and very flashy styles.

George Lynch was a particularly good/bad influence on me in the gear department. Each wild guitar solo had an even wilder guitar! That's a little more fun than "less is more" guitarists who stare at their shoes or guitarists trying to sell signature sunglasses. ;)


Viv and Sykes are vastly underrated imo. Both phenomenal as well as Gillis... Love Jake E Lee's early work, he might my favorite Ozzy Era to listen too and his stage presence was off the charts.

I also think Scotti Hill and Dave Sabo should get more love.

It's funny that you mention the less is more that was extremely lost on Lynch's guitar designs because he actually comes from the 70s less is more Era... he's stated several times that he's basically a 70s rock player trying to imitate EVH, Malmsteen ect.

Lol
 

Rtee

Member
Messages
66
Definitely his phrasing. I tend to get more robotic when I attempt his solos. The riffs, much like a lot of that eras songs are a blast to play though!


Ah so you get where I am coming from??? I have a theory about why I hear so much of this "feeling" in players like DeMartini and other 80s shredders, and it is because they grew up playing stuff like Hendrix, Page, Clapton, and other greats from that Era that was less chops and more FEELING though those players had pretty good chops too, that certain MOJO that is hard to imitate and duplicate, so by the time they are morphing into their own sound they have that part *the feeling part* down to a science, couple that with hearing Rhoads and Malmsteen hit the scene, combine the two and there ya go... its just a theory on my part but...

Anyway to get back to DeMartini, I understand what you're saying... in studying him I see the "free loosey goosey" yet controlled technique of his wrist motion while playing combined with a tight guitar pick grip of his thumb and first finger, you can see this in how his hand seems to be very tense in the rest of his fingers (Randy Rhoads did this too and is a huge influence on Warren) this gives him the best of both worlds in clean precise attack combined with a flowing sound of his wrist motion as opposed to being all stiff and using his stiff forearm to to attack notes.

Results in clean playing with a touch of *mojo* for feeling.

I don't think you have to use this same technique to achieve similar results but it definitely is part of his sound.

Warren is definitely a very "fluid" player.. I would say to focus on your picking hand attack for achieving his sound and less concentration on your fretting hand BUT that being said his legato work is also very smooth.

Watch some of his live work for visuals and read up about what Randy Rhoads talks about with picking hand techniques, he explains far better than I ever could. I hope this helps you bro...

Ratt n' Roll \m/
 
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Rtee

Member
Messages
66
Definitely his phrasing. I tend to get more robotic when I attempt his solos. The riffs, much like a lot of that eras songs are a blast to play though!


I forgot to mention that Warren also used Metal picks in his early years, though that is more about his sound (tone) but using metal picks does make you play a bit differently I feel, especially in loosening up the wrist motion in your attack because metal picks + stiff forearm = ouch... to my ears at least. That's why I don't use them when playing Acoustic and playing big strumming chord professions.
 
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vintagelove

Member
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4,013
I think we are seeing some really great use of legato incorporated that wasn't as widespread back in the 80's.

I also think the fact we're still stealing and developing stuff from those 80's greats speaks for itself.
 




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