Flat sawn vs Quarter sawn on Fender necks. FS sounds better to me.

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Tag, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. Route67

    Route67 Member

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    There’s been lots of interesting info shared here by many, and thanks for providing the platform, Tag. Of course us readers have to wade through some less than pleasant comments along the way, but it’s par for the course, considering the format. Thanks for sharing your insights.
     
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  2. AaeCee

    AaeCee Member

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    This thread like many others here, where no one is doubting Tag's (or anyone else's) claims of a tonal difference, but only his conclusion that it's the orientation of the wood grain in the neck that is the predominant factor.

    Exactly.
     
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  3. Danny D

    Danny D Member

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    No thanks! I like it. If I can't produce quality playing on my Telecaster than all the Red Eye's and Brown Eye's and Pearly Gates and Bonamassa OCD wouldn't help.
     
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  4. Danny D

    Danny D Member

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    Put your playing where your mouth is. Please post some of this 'research'.
     
  5. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Maybe you should read the thread before you spout yours. There are clips posted.
     
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  6. pete692

    pete692 Silver Supporting Member

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    I’m also wondering if he entered into the whole “experiment “ with a preconceived notion of what he expected to hear and feel.
     
  7. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Again, just read the thread. We did not even know or think of what was quarter sawn or not until days after the first get together.
     
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  8. pete692

    pete692 Silver Supporting Member

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    I read the OP, didn’t see anything alluding to any kind of blind test. 22 pages is a lot to wade through if you’re adding qualifiers and details as people respond to you.
     
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  9. bojocatkite

    bojocatkite Member

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    If we step back and think about what credit we should give to "luthiers", who most of the time are guitar makers, assemblers... not all of them are some kind of Ervin Somogyi or McInturff, they really do not necessarily know more about wood/tone than an educated players who had the opportunity to play numerous instruments over the years, they don't necessarily have a better sensitivity/hear, and one thing for sure very few of them have any mechanical engineering knowledge applied to wood or any scientific approach to their craft. You have luthiers who swear the thickness of a nitro finish has a discernible influence on the sound, others will hear no difference between a mahogany vs maple neck on a Les Paul. So, in the end, a guy who expose his experience is something I will listen too and not dismiss. Also, OP open a thread, i.e. he present his view and open a discussion... and he's talking about guitars, not deciding the future of the middle east conflict.
     
    Tag likes this.
  10. moehuh

    moehuh Member

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    I'm not sure if I missed your answer somewhere, but what was your conclusion after swapping the necks on the AO?
     
  11. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Really? Hanging around here thats near impossible. You have been around long enough to have picked it up subliminally at the least.
     
  12. Jules

    Jules Member

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    I'd be interested to know what the neck shapes of the guitars you tested were. Was wondering if that could be a factor at all. Apologies if it's already been posted but I mainly skim read the thread and missed out a couple of pages.
     
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  13. Zado

    Zado Member

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    Not sure about the neck shape, but the neck thickness IS crucial



    8:38
     
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  14. brado

    brado Member

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    There is a film “Masters of resonance” about the making of DW drums. In it they show how they discovered to tune a drums sound by changing not only the type of plywood veneers used in the shells, but by changing the orientation of the grain as well. That theory may apply here. Fascinating film.
     
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  15. big mike

    big mike David Grissom Wannabee Gold Supporting Member

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    Once the drummer kicks in I don’t care and don’t think anyone listening can tell the difference

    debating the minutiae a waste of time imo.

    that said tag has his opinion and arguing someone’s opinion is also a waste of time

    go play something
     
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  16. Laurent Brondel

    Laurent Brondel Supporting Member

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    Did you read the whole sentence, or are you just in a hurry to argue your point and muddy what I write? This is what I wrote, no misunderstanding on my part, I have been at this for a long time:
    "Vertical grain is the most stable cut in relation to wood expansion/contraction due to changes in RH (wood is hygroscopic), if stability is what you're looking for.
    Rift sawn is also the weakest in cross-grain stiffness."

    Your assertion that rift-sawn is the most dimensionally stable cut is simply false and contradicted by data and millennia of woodworking and instrument making.
    Rift-sawn is also (note the "also") is the weakest cross-grain, which may not matter much for 1" thick neck stock (except for headstock twist), but matters very much for acoustic guitars tops & backs.

    This applies to plates in string instrument making, whereas carved or flat. When the cut deviates only a few degrees from perfectly QS, cross-grain stiffness declines precipitously. It's very important for guitar tops on steel-strings, for example. With plates around 1/8" thickness it can be a night and day change.
    It does not necessarily applies to neck stock that is usually 1" thick and 2 3/8" wide at most.
     
  17. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Did you look at the link? Had to dig to find it. Its all about tests on neck woods, quarter and flat sawn.
     
  18. Roe

    Roe Member

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    Perhaps not better simpliciter, but certainly something can be better for certain applications
     
  19. Laurent Brondel

    Laurent Brondel Supporting Member

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    Yes, although this test is for cold creep, and not for strength per se, although both are related.
    Also a better study would have used many more samples of the same species as the variation within sometimes exceeds the variations between species, but no matter, this is nit-picking.
    It shows what some of us are trying to state here: there is no real difference in longitudinal strength between flat-sawn and QS maple.
    Some of the other tests I've seen before actually show flat-sawn to be marginally stronger, but that may be due to the individual samples.
     
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  20. paintguy

    paintguy Long Hair Hippy Freak Silver Supporting Member

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