Flat sawn vs Quarter sawn on Fender necks. FS sounds better to me.

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Tag, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    1: All of them.
    2: Eliminating everything else and comparing an odd feel and tone that ties only the FS and all the FS necked guitars to 60 + year old guitars. All QS necks did not share those properties, but had certain qualities tying them all together. All else on the guitars were basically the same with the exception of the neck cut.
     
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  2. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    PM sent.
     
  3. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    It wouldn't tell you anything useful, laid out as above. Forgoing objective measurements, and going only by how it sounds to you, is the very definition of subjectivity, meaning that your process will be useless to anyone else but you.

    And the possibility remains that its only utility to yourself will be reinforcing your preconceived notion, which is dubious at best.
     
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  4. Peteyvee

    Peteyvee Premium Platinum Member

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    I have to admire your perseverance, Ray. :D
    my L6-S Custom does this strange thing: if you tap on the master volume knob with your knuckle, it rings out with a harmonic an octave higher than what you’re fretting.

    If you tap the middle tone knob, the harmonic is a perfect fifth.

    If you tap the bottom tone knob, the harmonic is two octaves above the fretted note or chord.

    It works into a clean amp too, but with some serious gain on tap, like a TS-808 (or Fulldrive 3) into a cranked Marshall smallbox, it can get pretty wild even with a QS neck.
     
  5. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Admittedly , on the surface, it seems obvious. I mean they all had the same type of wood cut . I missed the part about blind testing them. Or just point to the post you described it in. Im not rereading this thread.
    It would be best to grab a couple good eared musician friends (that dont know about this) and perform a double blind test.
    I thought you mentioned some were rosewood, some maple as well as different cuts? Exactly by what means did you "eliminate everything else"? Seems like a daunting task. It might seem as though I'm trying to pick apart your hypothesis - of course I am. If it hold together under scrutiny it might be true.
     
  6. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Speaking of eliminating everything else- heres a big one- human error.

    With the first FS Tele you pick closer to the neck pick up than the QS. Picking closer to the bridge , of course, will give a brighter sound. Subliminal confirmation bias in action or just a mis-take.

    FS Tele
    [​IMG]

    QS Tele

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Which is why I posted and will continue to post clips.
    ;)
     
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  8. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Really think that's what it is? There are two other clips but I will remake them anyway you want. Want me to measure where I am picking on both? I will.
    :D

    What you are hearing is exactly how they sound.
    And hey, you hear it too!
    New clip as soon as I get home.
     
  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Understood. Just tired of rewriting it over and over. Also, both my buddy and I spent days trying to figure it out. We thought all the CS guitars were QS, that's why we we never thought of it. It was not until he looked at the build sheets days later they we realized all the guitars we liked were the flat sawn ones. The fact we knew the originals and the AO had FS, and we thought all Custom shops were QS caused it to never enter our minds. It was truly a blind finding. Now I just talked to another friend who has a slew of CS Teles, and I just spoke with him. I knew he has a favorite, and I played it a month ago and picked it as my favorite of his guitars as well. So I had him check. All his Teles are QS....EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE!!!!
    :eek::eek::eek::eek:
    FLAT SAWN BABY!!!!

    :banana:banana:banana:banana
     
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  10. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Yes I heard it. Then I thought to myself when I intentionally want to get a brighter, more percussive sound I pick closer to the bridge. Then I started to look at your hand placement and I noticed it you picked closer to the bridge with the QS.

    Aside from placement , pick attack is another factor. Subconsciously these things can come into play- literally. Thats where things like double blind tests are a gold standard.
     
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  11. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    We played all guitars for hours unaware of what they were. You can't get more blind than that. However, I will do another clip and pick in exactly the same spot, although if you view all three videos I do anyway. Coming up asap tonight.
     
  12. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    You can clearly see from the snap shots I posted you picked substantially in a different spot that time. Its this kind of variable that needs to be eliminated. Pick attack is another variable which is as important and more difficult to repeat exactly each time. You can (and will) make the same guitar sound different otherwise let alone two different guitars.
     
  13. boo radley

    boo radley Member

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    It would be interesting, IMO, to record samples (through the amplifier) played as identically as possible, upload them, and allow TGP to try to guess which belong to FS and which are QS guitars, through a poll.

    I think a statistician would need to weigh in, on how to construct the test. And there's still the problem with you knowing which is which, and even subconsciously adding just a hint of extra 'pop' to the attack of the QS guitar(s)....
     
  14. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Exactly why a double blind test set up properly (by someone who knows what they are doing) is invaluable. In a double blind the player AND conductor wouldn't know what they are actually testing for specifically and wouldn't have any knowledge on how or what to skew consciously or more importantly subconsciously. This isn't something you can just wing, I mean, I noticed a major discrepancy in just one video clip.
     
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  15. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    I'm not really worrying about it.

    I just never knew what my Strats were.
     
  16. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    Exactly. Picking location and attack do much to modify timbre. To isolate the neck-cut as the cause of change in timbre, @Tag will need to eliminate the other variables.
     
  17. Bertiman

    Bertiman Supporting Member

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    1 body, 20 necks (10 fs, 10 qs). Body on a fixed stand, a robotic arm strums, mic on a fixed stand. New strings per neck swap. Review the spectrograms for patterns. Blind listens for preferences. Easy peasy.... :p
     
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  18. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    You volunteering to build that rig ;)?
     
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  19. Bertiman

    Bertiman Supporting Member

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    Nope. I barely cared enough to write the post...
     
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  20. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Here you go kids. New clip. Any other "problems"??
    It's the grain. No way we are going to have all these results when every single one shows the difference is the cut of the wood.
    1/4 sawn means cutting off 25% of the bottom end. :p

     
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