Flat sawn vs Quarter sawn on Fender necks. FS sounds better to me.

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Tag, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. korus

    korus Member

    Messages:
    913
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Do you happen to know - were all four vintage Teles (pre-CBS, I guess?) all factory stock, with no modern replacement metal hardware parts - those metal parts underneath the vibrating strings? And FS Fender Custom Shops - were they also factory stock - with the modern made metal hardware?

    If you happen to test these vintage Teles again (not that you need to, but if you do), please try to notice if vintage Teles are louder and fatter sounding acoustically than FS Custom Shops, eg not only single notes on plain strings but cowboy chords hit hard also.
     
  2. Voxshall

    Voxshall Member

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    All my guitars have angled grain so rift sawn or flat sawn with angled pattern I got rid of my customshop strat with completely horizontal flat sawn grain as I didn’t think it had enough snap in the bass strings it played really slinky though and that slinky feeling followed the neck as I swapped it to different guitars.

    Completely stock strat body from 64, both guitars had necks dated 63, but interesting you say it has less mid's as I always loved the Foamvar black bottom pickups also from 63 (which have more mids) in that particular guitar, over the Enamel grey bottoms I often prefer in other strats. No lack of mids plugged in though, I often switch the deep switch on the Two Rock to reduce the mids further.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    Tag likes this.
  3. bassman00

    bassman00 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    177
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    I have a couple of boatneck Warmoth necks that might prove otherwise...
     
  4. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

    Messages:
    12,310
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Location:
    Mute Point

    Since you are "100% sold" your confirmation bias is undoubtedly problematic...
    - If the observer or collector intimately understands the experiment and naturally develops expectations or a preferred hypothesis, their observations will likely skew towards support their preferred hypothesis.
    A big reason why one needs a better method testing, non -biased ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    McNultyRulez, philster and budglo58 like this.
  5. T92780

    T92780 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,731
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Location:
    Caliphony
    PS Upon further review, "believe" guitar # 1 in my video is Rift Sawn, not FS, but guitar #3 is FS as advertised.
     
  6. Route67

    Route67 Member

    Messages:
    356
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    I don’t doubt it - in my old age even flatsawn maple looks capable of shattering bone below the knee, while each hand is at either end of the piece pulling forward with effort. Quartersawn looks weapon grade dense, due to tight grain - again, it’s not the white pulp that makes maple particularly strong, it’s the *grain component* - the more concentrated the grain, the stronger the piece of wood.

    I’m not a fan of kiln dried or roasted wood but I understand the former is standard practice these days in guitar manufacture. I do believe roasting can severely weaken maple or make it more brittle or susceptible to cracking, but it’s not something guitar owners need be concerned with.

    I post all of this in the interest of a follow up of scientific analysis and criticism -
     
  7. Voxshall

    Voxshall Member

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    It was a joke, double blind to knowing why it sounded different and blind to seeing the fretboard was rosewood, but on a serious note I personally see no value in letting scientific methods tell me what my emotional response to something as subjective as tone or music is, reducing my full and glorious experience to try and explain something in a compartmentalized way such as a logical explanation (small part of the full picture). I do respect others that do see value in science though, it's just not one of my values in this context, but live and let live whatever floats everyones boat.
     
  8. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have tested my AO tele against the vintage Maple neck/fingerboard tele acoustically and plugged in many times. They are as close as any two guitars could possibly be. And that's my favorite vintage Tele. He replaced the stock steel saddles with period correct brass to calm the high end a bit. Other than that, no replacements. Both are pre cbs.
     
    Route67 likes this.
  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks. I dig that scooped more hollow sound.
    The 59 Tele we had has it big time. Sounds like an archtop on the neck pup! Huge!
    :eek:
     
    Route67 likes this.
  10. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Your order is problematic. You have it backwards. I'm 100% positive because of my blind testing that led me to my conclusions. I have posted the results in clips, and my peers have found my findings correct, including you. Further testing will be documented when possible and posted for further peer reviews.
    :aok
     
    Route67 likes this.
  11. Julio Iguana

    Julio Iguana Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Location:
    Western North Carolina
    I was a squid (Navy/Vietnam) and was performing PM’s (preventative maintenance) on a 1K transmitter. When I opened the hot shelf it arc’d & threw me back into a bulkhead. I’m pretty sure I was hearing electrons moving when attempted to right myself!:crazy
     
    philster likes this.
  12. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

    Messages:
    12,310
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Location:
    Mute Point
    There is nothing "blind" about any of the "testing" you have conducted unfortunately that I have seen. Both the conductor and subject being conducted have been corrupted by intimate knowledge of the very subjective tests themselves. Both intimately understand the "desired results" and have naturally developed expectations that may skew things toward your hypothesis. To boot these tests would be to establish some correlation anyways which, as you know, in itself do not establish definitive cause. You are mistaken and at this point any findings are basically still invalid.
     
    philster likes this.
  13. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

    Messages:
    12,310
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Location:
    Mute Point
    Ah my mistake. I totally agree in that I too see "no value in letting scientific methods tell me what my emotional response to something as subjective as tone or music" . This is absolutely not what, for me, this discussion is about though. This is only about whether or not quarter sawn necks cause guitars to sound "plinky" - nothing more. Not my nomenclature btw. For the record to this point I do not see good evidence given to support this idea.
     
  14. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Your joking I hope.
    How about something as simple as putting on bigger strings? Changing saddles? Changing frets?? Tightening or loosening a trem?
    Blocking A trem? Grab an archtop that's to harsh on the top end. Put plastic saddles on the high E and B string. Calms it right down acoustically....and plugged in.
    These are off the top of my head.
     
    Route67 likes this.
  15. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    You seem unable to accept or understand the initial testing. We had a bunch of Teles to compare to the vintage guitars. We had zero knowledge of the cuts on the Custom shop guitars. None. If anything was in our subconscious, it was they were all quarter sawn. We picked the guitars out of all of them we thought sounded best, and most like the vintage guitars. We did that. It was not until several days later my buddy happened to look at all the build sheets and notice every guitar we liked was flat sawn, even the Masterbuilts.

    I also posted a clip of exactly what we both heard.

    It's your inability to accept that which is the problem.

    Carry on!
    :aok
     
    Route67 likes this.
  16. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    NEWS FLASH!!!!


    Just got some new information!!!

    ....seems some top builders are actually using necks that are more flat sawn on the treble side and rift or quarter on the bass side to intentionally keep the treble strings mellow and the bass strings snappy and brighter. :eek:

    HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!

    :banana:banana:banana
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    korus, T92780 and Route67 like this.
  17. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

    Messages:
    12,310
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Location:
    Mute Point
    In fact yes I did forget that initial testing. But objectivity drops right after that initial testing. Then suggestive, leading, bias testing takes over.
    You also seem for forget that correlation is not necessarily causation. Since it is your hypothesis the burden of actual proof falls on you.
     
  18. Bob Arbogast

    Bob Arbogast Supporting Member

    Messages:
    827
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Location:
    Lowell, Michigan USA
    Just got some pieces for a new Tele today from Warmoth. The neck has a rift grain pattern. I wonder what this one is going to sound like. (Body is roasted alder; neck is roasted maple and will remain unfinished.)

    [​IMG]


    .
     
    Tag, T92780 and rockon1 like this.
  19. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

    Messages:
    12,310
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Location:
    Mute Point
    Makes for a sweet looking tele!
     
  20. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    37,645
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ok!
    :beer

    And yes....its now going to take many examples to the contrary to change my mind, but if I find them, so be it! And I will keep putting up sound clips whenever possible for peer review. :D

    Check this out! A top made specifically to accentuate the bass and treble using the grain in the top!! Different grain patterns have been known to create different tones by true master builders for years.

    :dude:dude:dude:dude:dude



    [​IMG]
     
    Route67 and Mac Daddy 355 like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice