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FM3 vs HX Stomp - very nice comparison from John Cordy with poll!

Which is which?

  • A is Helix

  • A is Fractal


Results are only viewable after voting.

Fireproof

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,496
Ya know, it would be one thing if one of the usual knuckleheads in this place were to post something like that but for a person affiliated with a company to say something so blatantly false is just beyond the pale.
I’m just an innocent bystander, and certainly don’t claim to be an expert about this stuff, but I’m curious what is blatantly false.

From Line6 HX Stomp FAQ: “patented guitar ins with 123dB of dynamic range.”

From Fractal Wiki: “A/D conversion: 24-bit, 48 kHz, 114 dB dynamic range”
 

yeky83

Member
Messages
2,982
At one point in the video, he has the delay block selected and you can see which model it is (it's the Vintage Digital). It is stereo, but there's no way to turn off one side of that delay. To do what we're hearing, as far as I'm aware, the delay would have to be split into a parallel path which could be panned. Is there some other way to do this that I'm not familiar with? I don't know of any.
Huh, you're right there, it shows Vintage Digital. I dunno, maybe he reamped it after (and used Dual Delay with one side off)?
 

Cinope

Active Member
Messages
87
You're missing out on some significant tonal options if that's the case. I used to do the same, because years ago, the earliest modelers didn't really care what your volume was. Nowadays it's different. They behave very much like the real amps, and in fact for some amps, if you really want them to clean up you *have* to roll the volume down. You can set up patches that will very nicely go from chimey cleans to dirty grit with just your volume knob.
True. There is just no situation where I need that flexibility at the moment.
I mainly need 3 sounds a song at most. ( clean rythm 1/ rythm 2 and solo )
The mods/ and delay varying depending on the song.
I use snapshots for that and a midi controller to have on per song
 

SwirlyMaple

Member
Messages
821
Huh, you're right there, it shows Vintage Digital. I dunno, maybe he reamped it after (and used Dual Delay with one side off)?
Hmmm. Maybe. If not, something weird is going on, because the chain shown is clearly just Amp - Delay - Reverb. Maybe one of the stereo reverbs decays in the left channel, though I'm not aware of one that does...? EDIT: Ok, I just went through every stereo reverb, and none of them have that left-channel offset in their decay either. I'm 23% ready to call shenanigans here :p

However he did it, I now owe a man in Texas yardwork and tree trimming over this, I am not pleased... lol :rotflmao:rotflmao:bonk;);)
 
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Guitardave

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,556
That distortion on the attack made me stop listening - quite harsh, and not amp-like breakup. Certainly not a tone I would ever use. I like a tone like that to compress and smoothly saturate when pushed.
Did you listen to that Andy Timmons clip I posted above? To me it's got that exact sort harshness to the attack - at least that's how I hear it.

To me the challenge is people always try to conclude that tone is inherent to the technology/brand/etc.

Nope...not in my experience. What you hear coming out of the speaker is what the person using the gear did with it. Not much else to it...

My favorite folks to listen to are the ones who make stuff sound good. And that is a totally subjective evaluation on my part.
 

SwirlyMaple

Member
Messages
821
I’m just an innocent bystander, and certainly don’t claim to be an expert about this stuff, but I’m curious what is blatantly false.

From Line6 HX Stomp FAQ: “patented guitar ins with 123dB of dynamic range.”

From Fractal Wiki: “A/D conversion: 24-bit, 48 kHz, 114 dB dynamic range”
I'd like to better understand this too... that was a fairly defensive/irritated sounding retort... if it's that blatantly false, should be easy to provide more info, right?
 

SwirlyMaple

Member
Messages
821
Eh, I know that's what the spec sheet figures say but I dunno about that in practice. With my HX Stomp, I routinely hear slightly more noise than I'm used to with FAS stuff. And it could've been cus of gain/eq differences, but that was one of the giveaways for me in the comparison video, A had more noise than B.
I realize noise is a critical component of SNR, which is related to dynamic range, but in this case I'm not sure it means what you're implying. The amps that are modeled have noise too, and that is part of the model itself. Maybe it's not something explicitly added, but an accurately modeled amp with noise will have the same noise in the model. If you get your hands on the original multitrack stems for a lot of great older studio recordings, you'd be surprised how much noise there often is on the guitar tracks. That's just how it be, like an amp do.
 
Messages
6,478
Hmmm. Maybe. If not, something weird is going on, because the chain shown is clearly just Amp - Delay - Reverb. Maybe one of the stereo reverbs decays in the left channel, though I'm not aware of one that does...? EDIT: Ok, I just went through every stereo reverb, and none of them have that left-channel offset in their decay either. I'm 23% ready to call shenanigans here :p

However he did it, I now owe a man in Texas yardwork and tree trimming over this, I am not pleased... lol :rotflmao:rotflmao:bonk;);)
I’m guessing that yard is pretty big too. Texas.
 

jthomps123

Member
Messages
673
I have a FM3 on the way. Im sure i'll a/b it with my Helix and not hear too much difference. I borrowed an AX8 before buying a Helix, I just didnt like the format/editing of the AX8 at all. For the 1% difference in sound it was a toss up for me.

My plan is to keep the Helix for live, and use the FM3 at home, I do like the expanded amp offerings.
 

Fractal Audio

Member
Messages
1,238
I’m just an innocent bystander, and certainly don’t claim to be an expert about this stuff, but I’m curious what is blatantly false.

From Line6 HX Stomp FAQ: “patented guitar ins with 123dB of dynamic range.”

From Fractal Wiki: “A/D conversion: 24-bit, 48 kHz, 114 dB dynamic range”
The A/D converters have 114 dB of dynamic range and are probably the same converters used in the Stomp. The instrument input on the FM-3 uses a dynamic range enhancement technique which boosts the dynamic range to 123 dB.
 

PaisleyWookie

Member
Messages
9,577
Maybe to keep things civil, we should compare things less contentious and more concrete, like headphone outputs ***ducks for cover*** :rotflmao:rotflmao Juuuust kidddding! I like all these products. Options and competition are good for the consumer. ;)
Oh I like it all too. It’s a lot of fun messing with all this digital stuff.
 

Gearzilla

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,733
The A/D converters have 114 dB of dynamic range and are probably the same converters used in the Stomp. The instrument input on the FM-3 uses a dynamic range enhancement technique which boosts the dynamic range to 123 dB.
So are they basically the same then since Line 6 is 123 dB?
 

SwirlyMaple

Member
Messages
821
So are they basically the same then since Line 6 is 123 dB?
The one thing that does differ on the inputs, though, is the FM3 has a fixed 1MOhm input impedance. The Stomp (and Axe FX 3) have variable input impedance which is pretty important for the tone and feel of certain pedals. :munch
 




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