For me, there is no better guitar than a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul.

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Magnets And Melodies, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Knowledge is valuable. Sometimes very valuable.

    It is funny how this quickly went from a mass produced modern guitar to a $100 '59 from an old lady.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  2. runningman

    runningman Member

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    Again, you're arguing that there's no argument. that it's settled.

    I think it's obvious that's not the case.
     
  3. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Ok, break it down on that pawn shop '07 for me. The one I got for $800.
    They'd been told by a trusted source that it was fake. They couldn't ring me up fast enough. Was I morally obligated to speak up and inform them of the truth?
    Not as I see it. What are your thoughts on that specific deal? Given the facts, not some hypothetical/hyperbolic scenario.
     
  4. Magnets And Melodies

    Magnets And Melodies Member

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    These were 3-4K new.
     
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  5. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    Love these 4---all bought new, all different from each other in terms of pickups/bridges, etc., but with that unique Gibson tone and playing feel. From left to right, 2003 '68 RI, '98 R8, '97 R4 Oxblood, '96 R4.

    [​IMG]

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    I really enjoy other guitars as well, especially T-types. And the Gibson CS does produce some average instruments in my experience (I have played a lot of reissues and vintage Gibsons). But when they hit one out of the park, it can be very special. That's why I've kept these and stopped looking. The latest and greatest version is just spin to me when I already know what these guitars can do.
     
  6. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    I play guitar full time, it is my only income. My '13 R8 was only $2750 new. That price seems very reasonable for what I got.
     
  7. 67blackcherry

    67blackcherry Supporting Member

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    Love my Custom Shop guitars, and that ‘88 Standard on the far left is no slouch either, she hangs just fine with all the others

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    Of course, my Cunetto’s are no slouches either...

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    The bottom line is a good Guitar is a good guitar
     
  8. C-4

    C-4 Member

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    As an aside, having read that if you don't make a high 5-6 figure income, most musicians cannot afford to buy a Custom Shop Gibson, then I must be an exception, just as I know others are.

    My net income is $18K per year from my day job. I use my band money to save up and buy what I want to use.

    I think nothing of spending whatever it is that I need to save up, if I want a piece of gear. Currently, I have 3 Custom Shop Gibsons, and one USA Production LP as a beater. I have other guitars as well, and they are all high end pieces.

    I grew up playing custom shop Gibson guitars, and even was invited too, and went to Kalamazoo, as a guest of Gibson, on two separate occasions for a week each trip. I know and feel the differences between a production USA Gibson and the Custom Shop guitars, just as others do. I simply won't deny myself anything, if I want it.

    You can own higher end pieces if you have the patience, temperament, and mind to put yourself to the task of religiously saving up or them. I've done it all of my life.
     
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  9. runningman

    runningman Member

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    That's an interesting case, partly because they were ostensibly trying to screw you and ended up getting their comeuppance in the process.

    I think the fact that it was a retail store as opposed to a private party changes the moral calculus somewhat. They are in the business of buying and selling used stuff, so it isn't really a direct comparison. Lets say a business like that ought to know the value, so the ethical bar is lower from the customer's perspective.

    Here's an compelling twist. Say the R8 was listed on Craigslist for $800. Seller believes the guitar is a fake. You arrange to meet, and during the discussion you learn that the seller is a close friend of your wife's family. Or better yet, of your boss's family.

    Knowing what you know about the authenticity and market value of the R8, and knowing this is going to get back to your wife (or boss), do you go through with the sale.

    And if you don't have a connection to the seller, how does the moral calculus change if you're strangers?
     
  10. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    There’s that hypothetical BS...

    Craigslist seller knowingly selling a fake for $800?

    They could be my wife’s friend AND boss’s cousin, it wouldn’t change how I approach it.

    “Knowing this is going to get back to...”

    knowing what is going to get back? That I bought a guitar from someone they knew? What’s the big deal? It was fake anyway.

    The $1000 chambered custom came from someone I knew. I even told him I sold it a few month later. I offered it back for the price he sold it to me.
     
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  11. Magnets And Melodies

    Magnets And Melodies Member

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    What a bunch of ridiculousness. It's not morally/ethically wrong if a retail store does it, but it is if I do it in a private sale?

    Man you really took this thread offsides.
     
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  12. LookerBob

    LookerBob Supporting Member

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    This. I owned an '06 R8 that I sold in '14, and it was a truly great guitar. I just yesterday ordered a used CS Junior, and the piece of wood is pretty dang stunning... under 7 lbs... not here yet, but high hopes:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. C-4

    C-4 Member

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    My statement to others criticizing an individual's motives from on high is...
    "Let those without fault cast the first stone!;)"
     
  14. runningman

    runningman Member

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    I think you're missing the point. The seller thinks it's a fake, probably bought it as such. But it's not. And you know it's not. Like the guitar you bought from the pawn shop.

    So you're all excited to buy a real R8 for pennies on the dollar from someone who thinks it's a fake. But then it turns out you're connected to the seller, and they will probably find out the truth, and so will your boss.

    Maybe a better scenario is to flip it on its head, and summon the Golden Rule while we're at it.

    You've got a guitar--let's say an R8--you bought as a fake and want to sell it to a friend. Remember, you think it's a fugazi.

    So the friend buys it for the $800 you were asking, but you learn through a mutual friend that he knew the guitar was real when he bought it, but elected not to inform you of the guitar's authenticity.

    Still friends?
     
  15. MusicalMan

    MusicalMan Member

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    I have a 1968 Reissue LP Custom I bought used, and I decided to go all out on a run-of-the-mill 2015 LP Custom that I bought from GC which is a fantastic guitar in every way. The 68 RI has a lot of desirable qualities that people expect from a LP Custom that have changed as of somewhat recent:

    - ebony fretboard
    - long neck tenon
    - 57 Classics

    My 2015 has Richlite fretboard, 498T/490R set, and doesn't have long neck tenon. All that aside, it is a fun guitar to play and looks great. To add, I wasn't stigmatized with the whole Richlite thing as I knew once I played it, I really liked it. I had 45 days to decide whether or not to turn it in as we all know with GC, and I kept it as I knew it was a guitar to have for a lifetime that I could enjoy. It's just a well-built guitar all around.

    Yeah, my 68 RI is "more favorable" among those who look for a LP Custom, but I don't really care about the arguments against it. The fretwork on this guitar is fantastic, finish flawless... just perfect in terms of playability given what you'd expect from a guitar of this price point; there's nothing sloppy about it at all. Being that I have owned a Richlite fretboard guitar for a few years, I just don't understand the stigma as the biggest argument I have ran across is the cost of the guitar warrants real wood to be on the fretboard. But hey, it's not like you can't get used LP Customs with ebony fretboards or spend a few grand more than I did for a historic reissue to get your long neck tenon and real wood on the fretboard as well.

    Bottom line is Gibson Custom Shop guitars are fantastic and worth it to the serious guitarist. Yeah, you're going to cough up some dough, but in the end, musical instruments aren't necessities necessarily - more of a luxury to get fancy ones. All manufacturers that make fancy sought after high end guitars are expensive any way you cut it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  16. SkydogFan81

    SkydogFan81 Supporting Member

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    The biggest issue with the USA models is that even those they swiss cheese the mahogany body, they still weigh ~11 lbs. Then you have the short neck tenon, different neck carve etc... There is just no way to polish a turd.

    I did forget to to mention, there are 2 guitars I lust after from time to time - a CS SG and an R6
     
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  17. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Holy cow. That doesn’t change anything. I don’t care if I’m connected to the seller. I don’t know how that matters. That’s not even a realistic situation. Everyone within 6 degrees of me knows i deal in guitars. I don’t even have a boss! My wife? She’d try to get more off the price than asking.

    And I’m not winding up with something I’m not hip to. It’s just not going to happen.

    I have many dealer friends, I buy and sell to dealer friends. I don’t get sad when I sell them a guitar and they mark it up, or get considerably more than I sold it to them for.

    I sold it for a reason. I sold it for what I did...for a reason. None of this has to do with the person that gave me the money I asked for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  18. runningman

    runningman Member

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    something tells me you don't enjoy hypothetical philosophical discussions...:rotflmao

    no worries, different strokes.

    I will leave you with one thought regarding your apparent confidence in never 'winding up with something you're not hip to'. Go watch the movie Sour Grapes. It's about a counterfeit wine swindle, and how some very wealthy and knowledgeable wine enthusiasts got scammed by a clever and charming con artist.

    None other than billionaire Bill Koch--yes, the Koch Brother Koch--ended up with several million dollars worth of phony wine in his wine cellar.
     
  19. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    The difference between Koch and I is my knowledge greatly exceeds my wealth. I don’t pay retail, I don’t pay premium...I’ve never spent more than $3k on a guitar.

    I’m not going to wind up with something I’m not knowledgable about. It’s not going to happen. I don’t spend money on anything but a sure thing.
     
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  20. riscado

    riscado Member

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    It's funny how mileage varies... having owned multiple historic reissues throughout the years, including some recent ones. As well as a 1964 SG junior, a 1958 Les paul single cut junior and several Memphis ES type guitars. I've sold all the historic reissues because they never did it for me. Sold my vintage ones because I wasn't playing them enough and kept a nice ES-335 Warren Haynes and ES-330 wildwood 59 from Memphis.

    For Les Pauls I much prefer my Navigators to any of the custom shop reissues I've owned. They always seem to have more of the dryness in the response that the old ones have.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019

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