For those rockers and intermediates trying to improve...

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Tag, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. boo radley

    boo radley Member

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    I'm just imagining the average, self-professed 'intermediate' rock guitar player wanting to improve, and the helpful gift of 'post-Camarillo' Charlie Parker.
     
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  2. derekd

    derekd Member

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    You never know what will catch someone's ear.

    My gateway to jazz was listening to smooth jazz because I was so tired of hearing people soloing almost exclusively with a minor or major pentatonic scale.

    The smooth jazz guys all play jazz, also and kept recommending guys like Parker.
     
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  3. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Yep. Did you ever hear him play the Charlie Christian solos note for note? Diminished scales/licks and all. He hears the changes, and always makes them in the blues. His jazz influences are a big part of why hes so good.
     
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  4. dsimon665

    dsimon665 Supporting Member

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    Camarillo was a state hospital in Ventura County...I'm not sure when he went there, but this article seems to say 1947.
    https://altaonline.com/the-night-charlie-parker-soared-jazz-jacks-los-angeles-south-central/

    Parker had a lot of energy on prior recordings, so I'm not sure what Stewart meant by that.

    Kind of related to the OP (of having some lines worked out ahead of time),
    here's Parker playing Ko-Ko in 1945 - there's a "Tea for Two" quote at about 1:40 in this recording.



    The Bebop review channel on YT breaks down that "Tea for Two" lick at the end of the below video - around the 33 min mark
    With a comparison of several recordings where Parker used that quote.

    at about 23 min, he compares 3 takes Parker did on "Tiny's Tempo" to show where Parker used the same/similar lines.

    also, it has an interesting discussion about having a set of lines worked out as in: "Are Patterns Good or Bad?".

     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  5. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Listen to this guy, learn some of his lines while paying strict attention to where the chords change and how he changes his lines to fit the chords. Notice how it's a major blues, and how he plays the major 3rd on the I chord and over the IV chord basically switches that major 3rd to a minor 3rd. The major 3rd of the I chord turns into the flatted 7th of the IV chord, and the major 6th of the I chord turns into the maj 3rd of the IV chord. Those simple 2 note changes on the I and IV chord of a major blues are arguably the best starting point to becoming a great blues and jazz player. Work on hearing that and get to the point where you do not have to think about it, you just hear it and do it automatically.
    3 to 6 months of that, and in a years time your playing will start to take a 180 turn for the better.

     
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  6. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    You mean the maj7th of the IV chord?
     
  7. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    That's a good sign, because smooth jazz many times is basic jazz lines over slower, simpler chord changes. Pick out some of the lines Benson plays in "On Broadway" for example.
    Straight up bob lines.
     
  8. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Loved that bare footed guys solo!!
     
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  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    No. The 4 chord in a maj blues is a dom 7 chord. The 7th is flatted. That's why the easy way to make the changes is play maj pent on the 1 chord, minor pent on the 4 chord. (In G that would be G maj pent on the G7 chord, G minor pent on the 4 chord. (C7)
     
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  10. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    Yeah, but the 3rd of the I is the maj7 of the IV.

    Example:

    3rd of G (the I) = B.
    B = maj7 of C (the IV).
     
  11. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Absolutely. Parker is not all that complicated.
    Listen to the base chords, and pick out the lines that catch your ear. Use a slowdowner, because the speed at which he plays some make it much harder to hear. CParker is where I learned all my base bop lines. They are still played verbatim by almost every jazz player alive. The guy (along with Dizzy) invented modern jazz vocabulary.
     
  12. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Which is why you flat it when it goes to the 4 chord. (C7)

    That's the single most important note change you have to learn to hear IMO.
    Got it Blues?
     
  13. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    Yeah got that, I was just being technical.
     
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  14. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    So was I.
    :dunno
     
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  15. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    And for extra grease go from G major Blues on I7 to G minor Blues on IV7.
     
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  16. stickyFingerz

    stickyFingerz Supporting Member

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    Bop 'till you drop? Or isn't this what the OP is saying?
     
  17. archtop

    archtop Member

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    Some interesting lines and phrasing here in a blues rock context...
    (Swipe for more video)

     
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  18. beatcomber

    beatcomber Member

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    I love Grant Green and have many of his recordings, but I'm afraid I do not understand things like "the major 3rd of the I chord turns into the flatted 7th of the IV chord, and the major 6th of the I chord turns into the maj 3rd of the IV chord."

    I guess I'll never be able to play jazz, sigh.
     
  19. Bussman

    Bussman Member

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    Easy. Example in C (I chord C and IV chord F, side by side):
    Code:
    6 A - E 7
    5 G - C 5
    3 E - A 3
    R C - F R
    
    By looking at the chords side by side you can see that the major 3rd of C (E) becomes the major seventh in the IV chord F (in Tags' example he flattens that note so he'd play Eb over F giving him the b7 of that chord). The major 6th of C (A) becomes the major 3rd over the F chord.

    If you spell out the chords side by side it becomes obvious what the common tones are and what they are doing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  20. skydog

    skydog Supporting Member

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    Nirvana?
     

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