For those who use their volume knob to control gain...

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Paul Anderberg, Feb 21, 2012.

Treble Bleed Mods?

  1. No treble bleed circuit (Default on most)

  2. 50's Wiring

  3. Treble Bleed (Cap and Resistor in Series)

  4. Treble Bleed (Cap and Resistor in Parallel)

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  1. Paul Anderberg

    Paul Anderberg Member

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    So for everyone that uses a mid-gain amp and controls the gain with your volume knob, what percentage of you are using some sort of treble bleed mod? Whether 50's wiring, cap, cap+res, whatever. I am just learning about these different mods so if my options are off a little, please let me know!

    ...and are you using humbuckers or single coils?
     
  2. [J.K.]

    [J.K.] Member

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    I'm not using anything right now, but I've long been considering re-wiring a couple of my darker guitars. Would love to hear pros/cons on the differences.
    Great thread.
     
  3. RCM78

    RCM78 Member

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    I dont like treble bleed circuits. If I buy a guitar that has one I snip it right out...
     
  4. el nino

    el nino Member

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    i don't know what you are talkig about cause i don't understand all of this in the poll :huh

    i just use stock wiring and pick ups in my 58 reissue and traditional :) and its awesome riding the volume knob,you can get so much out of the guitar...dynamics man ;)

    but i would sure like to know if anybody wants to explain all of this wiring,treble bleeds and stuff?
     
  5. Paul Anderberg

    Paul Anderberg Member

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    So, the basics of it are this:

    As you turn down the volume knob on a standard wired guitar, the highs get attenuated. So the general thing people complain about is (1) if the amp EQ'd for full volume, it can possibly get muddy when you turn down the volume knob or (2) if you have it EQ'd for 3/4 or 1/2 volume knob, there is a noticable brightness that seemingly occurs.

    The treble bleed mod feeds back in the treble as you pull the volume knob down, giving you more even treble response. Usually this involves a cap and resistor in parallel or series.

    OR there is another mod called the 50's mod (on TDPRI.com known as the Fezz Parka mod) that connects the tone knob to the volume knob in such a way that supposedly accomplishes this without getting too bright as some people complain about on the treble bleed mod.

    Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  6. el nino

    el nino Member

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    nice,i i understand it now ;) thank you very much paultanderberg :beer
     
  7. dazco

    dazco Member

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    Hums and singles, and a treble bleed is infinitely variable as to the amount and frequency range it passes. So those who aren't 100% happy with no TB at all, but do so because they have tried them and found them too bright, they need to try different values or scenarios. Especially those who only tried a .001uf. Thats nasty to me as well. Try a 250pf or even a 100pf, and the try it with a 1 meg trimmer and 100k resistor in series together then paralleled to the cap and adjust it till you like it. Somewhere in all the possibilities theres a scenario for everyone excep those who are 100% happy w/o it. I would assume those people mostly play clean or amps that need to be cranked to generate distortion.
     
  8. baimun

    baimun Member

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    I'm with you there. For me, the guitar is full out with plenty of sparkle, and when I dial the volume back (and the gain) I like the treble to roll off a bit and get smoother. The "treble bleed" systems are designed to do just the opposite.
     
  9. Paul Anderberg

    Paul Anderberg Member

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    That's the way I'm feeling right now, but I've never tried a treble bleed/50s mod before so I don't know what I'm missing. It's like when I didn't know how good 57 Classics can be until I took the Burstbucker Pros out. (no offense anyone)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  10. Paul Anderberg

    Paul Anderberg Member

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    Has anyone ever tried both the 50s wiring and the treble bleed and PREFERRED the treble bleed? Most people I've seen on the TDPRI.com threads that have tried both prefer the 50s/Fezz Parka wiring.
     
  11. Franklin

    Franklin Member

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    I too prefer stock, because when I turn up it is usually to solo. So I want to cut through more.
     
  12. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

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    That's pretty much it.

    In almost all modern guitar circuits, the tone controls are attached to the input of the volume knob. This prevents the volume pot from affecting the response of the tone circuit. The 50's mod places the tone circuit on the output of the volume. This eliminates the load of the tone circuit on the volume control greatly reducing the darkening of tone as the volume is rolled back at the expense of creating a tone circuit which is interactive with the volume pot.

    The treble bleed mod is actually blocking some of your treble from going to ground. When your volume knob is wide open, a treble bleed has no effect on your tone. Its passive, and can not give you more treble response than your wiring has with the volume wide open. The "bleed" helps minimize the darkening of tone which happens due to the loading down of your signal by your tone circuit as the volume knob is reduced.

    All this said, some amps (and/or combination of gain effects prior to the amp) can counteract the darkness which happens when you roll back the volume knob without any special wiring in the guitar. It has to do with the equalization and compression of gain stages. For example, a treble booster into a cranked up amp will retain a good deal of clarity and treble response even with a fairly heavily loaded down signal due to the frequencies being boosted and the multiple gain stages.
     
  13. RedTiger

    RedTiger Member

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    I put the gain at or nearly as high as it goes and I control it with the volume knob which is totally stock, nothing special. I do this for everything. All my guitars have humbuckers.
     
  14. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    I've used the ACME treble bleed kits for years on all my guitars. I believe they are in parallel.
     
  15. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    I've tried the '50s wiring and still prefer the treble bleed kits. I like my leads to be thicker and not too bright and like to roll off the volume and have it a bit more bright and clean.
     
  16. Paul Anderberg

    Paul Anderberg Member

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    So do you EQ your rig with the volume knob down?
     
  17. jimmyj

    jimmyj Member

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    This is me, too. I roll back the volume on a Tele to smooth the gain just a touch and attentuate the highs a little. With P-90s, also single coil, I like how mixing the volumes in the middle position works with vintage type wiring sans treble bleed.
    With humbuckers, which I currently don't use, I have a different method for getting certain tones hard won from years of playing before having heard of any other options like treble bleed circuits. But I'll say this, I don't do much knob twirling with humbuckers. It's usually wide open on the guitar or at most, middle position with the bridge PU wide open and the neck PU rolled back to 8. Maybe if I had learned to use a modern wiring scheme I would get more usable sounds with humbuckers.
     
  18. macmeda

    macmeda Silver Supporting Member

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    Single coils ( mostly) no treble bleed> Marshall 2061X NMV
     
  19. shane88

    shane88 Member

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    :agree
     
  20. Cymbaline

    Cymbaline Member

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    My Ibanez RG-7620 (With Dimarzio humbuckers, stock pickup in the neck, Blaze in the bridge position) came stock with a 330pF capacitor on the volume pot. (No resistor, just the cap.) I like it. With my DS-1 or BSIAB distortion box, it gets a real Stratty quack in position 2 when I turn it down.
     

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