Fractal Audio Axe-FX II: Dialing up V7... Simple, Fast, Effective - Some Thoughts

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Scott Peterson, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Wildwind

    Wildwind Member

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    Okay, maybe not the place to drop it in, but an Axe newbie here - what is IR Lab? I did a Google search, came up with everything but something relevant.

    As for the rest - this is all very interesting. I too had adapted Scott's NF/FF approach and found it worked very well with all but one amp (Trainwreck sounded better at default to my ears) in my current set. I look forward to following this and trying out some of ideas conveyed here.
     
  2. Tone Seeker

    Tone Seeker Member

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    It's an IR sorter, player and mixer. . . .

    http://iprodaudio.com/

    Sadly, it will not run on a Mac.

    Terry.
     
  3. Wildwind

    Wildwind Member

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  4. kmanick

    kmanick Member

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    I've gone thru something similar , wehnI first loaded V7 I thought, "oh crap what have I done" my higher gain patches were way off from my 6.02 patches , specifically my JVM and USA Lead 1 patches.
    I reset the blocks and and found that by turning the master volume up to around 6.5 the amps suddenly "opened up".
    less gain and less "depth" and i started to hear what I was looking for.
    now I love it the girth and bounce offf of the strings is really happening now.
    this was a great upgrade.
     
  5. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    Yes, the MV is much more powerful now. Before, turning it up could make it flubby but now it gets bouncier and thicker. The whole key is balancing preamp and power amp distortion, as in a real amp.
     
  6. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    In prior FW levels, the high gain amps were suggested at 4-5 and the NMV amps were suggested at 9 on the master. Has that changed? Is it more varied by amp now?
     
  7. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    It's more dependent on the amp now. I just start low and bring it up until I get the desired compression. Then I chug the E string and if it's too buzzy or flubby I drop it down a bit. For tight, high-gain stuff you want to keep it low. For liquid, spongy tones you want to set it higher.
     
  8. MaxTwang

    MaxTwang Member

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    With an edge of breakup patch this is really evident, adjusting the MV between 6 and 9 seems to have a 'loudness' effect where the tone warms up but also power amp distortion comes into play. Setting both Drive and MV where they're starting to break up you can play with both and see how each contributes to the overall distortion & tone.
     
  9. Deaj

    Deaj Silver Supporting Member

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    I am also finding v7.0 to be very simple to dial in. It's like dialing in an amp now and the results are very much like a tube amp - more so than in prior firmware releases. With v7.0 I don't feel the need to adjust anything beyond gain, TMB, presence, master volume, and bright switch. I enjoy playing with some of the deep editing parameters as well but I don't find them necessary to get the results I'm after. I'm really diggin' this update!!
     
  10. TheAmpFactory

    TheAmpFactory Member

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    I did already. now highlighted in Bold! -I like your approach, but for me its not as nice as my own method :) - so if thats OK, i'd like to disagree. - but its so subjective its great that you differ from me, and I from you.- this si why its so good - we all like different things, but the best of all, its from the same unit!
     
  11. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    Scott, one thing I noticed about your previous technique of mixing FF/NF is that the FF helped tame the excess highs and lows associated with the close mic'd IR. Basically it was the equivalent to rolling off EQ to give a more natural sound through a PA...more like a true guitar cab/speakers. I tried a few different Redwirez IRs by themselves again. I prefer a more balanced sound vs. a sizzly mid sound a la the SM57 so I ended up with Neumann U87 which has a little high and low bite. Just that IR alone was too harsh though. It also felt it was too harsh with the R121 + SM57 without any EQ rolloff. So, I looked at the speakers in the IRs and found they're frequency range. Pretty much all of the Celestion speakers fall in the 70-5000 range. So, that's what I did on the cabinet EQ...I matched the speaker eq range. Rounded things off nicely. I'll have to test live, but I still feel like running a close mic'd IR gives too much bass and treble that you have to dial out somewhere or else it overpowers and sounds harsh at volume. I don't think 7.0 removed that reality, but that's just my opinion. 7.0 does sound great though...
     
  12. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Depending on the mic and the position, close-mic'ing creates the effects you mention and several others. Additionally, close-mic'ing does not capture the effect of the cab or of multiple transducers in a cab the way you hear them when you play.

    It did not and cannot. Nor could any firmware revision that does not add cabs that were mic'ed at realistic distances. Attempting to compensate for these shortcomings in the amp block would be ill-advised, as it would then be impossible to get authentic results with well-acquired farfield IRs.

    I notice in Rev 7 a significant difference in the output modeling behavior. possibly in the source/load impedance algorithm. I would have to do instrumented testing to be sure of that, but that's how it seems to me subjectively.
     
  13. theatomicjeff

    theatomicjeff Member

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  14. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm trying to split the difference and find a happy medium. I'm going to test the NF/FF mix again vs. NF with high and low cuts in the cab block and see a) which one I like better and b) which one comes through the best live. I still don't like either NF or FF by themselves. NF is too overpowering a sound (to me) and doesn't sound natural (as you noted) and FF seems too tame and weak with no cut (on its own). This is just my preference and ears though as I know you (and others) feel different about properly captured FF IRs.

    One thing I do know...after all this time with the AxeFX platform, I do feel my sound needs to come from IR mic captures of "natural" mics, like the Neumann U87, which don't color the cab sound as much. The SM57 sound is not for me but then again, I don't like to be in someone's face with my tone. As long as I don't get completely lost in the mix, I'm OK being more subtle vs. in your face. Kind of my personality coming through on the instrument I guess! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  15. MaxTwang

    MaxTwang Member

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    Jay, What do you consider the minimum mic distance for farfield to be? Is your goal to capture the full sound of the transducer, as opposed to sound from a specific point on the transducer, or the room as well?
     
  16. ptgold

    ptgold Member

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    Are you still using the speaker resonance tweaks for this firmware?
     
  17. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    I think he said he dropped those. Straight up amp models and cab blocks with no advanced tweaks and using Redwirez IRs.
     
  18. burningyen

    burningyen Member

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    I'm not Jay, but I've read enough of his posts to take a shot at answering. FF as he has defined it is the distance required to capture the sound of the entire cab. I will hazard a guess that that distance will vary depending on the cab. And Jay has been very clear that a properly captured FF IR contains no room sound.
     
  19. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Depends on the cab.

    No. There is no "the full sound of the transducer," there's the sound made by the transducer(s) in a cabinet. Every element makes an audible contribution, and the only way to realistically capture those contributions is by placing the microphone in a position your ears could occupy while playing.

    Close-mic'ing does not capture the "sound from a specific point on the transducer." It captures sound from all "points on the transducer (and the cabinet)," but at relative levels and arrival times that are profoundly different than what your ear receives at normal playing/listening distances.

    No. I've said this dozens of times, but I'll repeat it yet again: a properly-acquired farfield IR has no room reflections in it. That's one of many things that makes them so challenging to acquire.
     
  20. Tone Seeker

    Tone Seeker Member

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    Jay, are you still planning to sell far field IR's?

    Terry.
     

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