Fractal Audio's New FM3

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by LqdSndDist, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Fireproof

    Fireproof Member

    Messages:
    1,994
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
    Per your quote, Cliff stated that it doesn’t have ALL the features of the AxeIII models. Therefore, by nature, the FM3models are “less than” in some way(s).

    So on one hand we read “AxeIII quality is there” yet on the other hand we read “it doesn’t have all the same features.”

    Doesn’t seem hard to comprehend why some people want to know exactly how it’s “less than” both modeling-wise, tone-wise, etc.
     
  2. Yek

    Yek Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Aha, in that case I’ll gladly admit that my simplification clearly was, err, too simple.
     
  3. hippietim

    hippietim Member

    Messages:
    5,732
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    You are also interchanging quality and features. As for people wanting to know how they differ, Cliff did explain that already.
     
    dlc86 likes this.
  4. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    So "well, the amp modeling is the same, but we left off the bright cap." -- feature or quality?

    As I noted, whether the initial statement "same quality Ares quality as in Axe III" is misleading or not, it certainly invites hand-wringing when differences between Axe III amp modeling and FM3 modeling are raised. And that's the context of my post -- gtr### dude asserted that nobody would have had any nitpicking critique over a press-release and I was noting that "well yeah, but once some of the differences in the amp modeling were raised after that press-release, the nitpicking would absolutely begin."
     
  5. Yek

    Yek Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Location:
    Netherlands
    A bright cap has an immediate impact on the tone. Of course it can’t be left out.

    Tremolo is an effect. Even the III doesn’t include the reverb in the model of the Princeton Reverb.
     
  6. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    That's fine, I know the III doesn't include the reverb in the amp model. I also know that the III models the bias tremolo which also affects the tone in more ways than just adjusting volume -- I mean, the "effect" is to modulate the amp bias which is a pretty fundamental feature of the amp's tone!

    If the "quality" (which I read as "the accuracy") of the modeling of the princeton reverb is said to be the same as the III, I'd be surprised to find out that the FM3 didn't include true modeling of the amp's bias tremolo since the Axe III includes that feature, thereby rendering its model of those amps of significantly higher accuracy/quality than those of the competition.

    Its not a huge deal and its been clarified. But it also shouldn't be surprising that some people had some questions and a bit of hand-wringing over what else was considered a "feature" rather than a part of accurate/high-quality modeling.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    mbenigni likes this.
  7. Guitardave

    Guitardave Supporting Member

    Messages:
    8,668
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    Benicia, CA
    You guys are really taking the critiques way too far IMHO.

    It's the least expensive Fractal modeling product ever. There's going to be a few compromises. But it's got a lot going for it.
     
    DonnieRiddle and slugworth like this.
  8. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Because a thread title about Cinderella has had this song stuck in my head for several days now..."You don't know what its got, 'till...you don't know what it's not got..." Nobody's slagging the thing as a piece of poop not worth its asking price. Its a gear forum, where else are you going to nitpick what's the same, what's different, whether or not the differences are relevant/meaningful? If that topic is boring or drives you nuts...
     
    Mayhem13 likes this.
  9. vibrostrat43

    vibrostrat43 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,977
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Location:
    League City, Tx
    It's quite possible that the Fractal fuzzes been designed to work and sound good with a standard 1M impedance rather than actually change input impedance. With enough coding and powerful enough hardware there's a good chance they can replicate/approximate it.

    It's just 2 different approaches to modeling between Line 6 and Fractal.
     
  10. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    No...because they cannot know what the output impedance of your guitar is, which depends on your pickups, pot/capacitor values and wiring, and where you have all those things set.
     
    MIJLOVER, yeky83 and Mark Al like this.
  11. gtr37

    gtr37 Member

    Messages:
    3,930
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    The features they are mentioning were add ons to the original amp block

    Dynamic depth and pres
    Harmonics etc
    These may or may not assist in getting your tone but if you plug into a marshall
    Mesa etc they are not there
     
    slugworth likes this.
  12. vibrostrat43

    vibrostrat43 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,977
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Location:
    League City, Tx
    I'm not quite sure I understand how that affects anything considering fuzz makers don't know what the output impedance of your guitar is either, yet they are able to make fuzzes that sound good with all kinds of guitars.
     
    slugworth likes this.
  13. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Read Jay's post upthread. Your signal will be altered based on the relationship between the output impedance of your guitar, the input impedance of what your guitar is plugged into and the frequency content of the signal your guitar is outputting -- it is a filter. The fuzz pedal doesn't need to know anything because the guitar is plugged directly into it so the signal is altered based on those electrical relationships.
     
    MIJLOVER and yeky83 like this.
  14. Mark Al

    Mark Al Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    As I mentioned earlier, it’s NOT just fuzz, which is an extreme example. I don’t expect onboard fuzz to work well at all with a constant 1M Z, it just can’t.... However, it affect potential many other pedals as well including drive, distortion, and modulation depending on what is being modeled here. Many may not notice or care why their Tube Screamer sounds unnaturally tight but some definitely will.

    I said nothing about deal breaker, still on the waitlist and still debating.
     
    Mayhem13 likes this.
  15. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Can you elaborate on this at all? Hardware related?
     
  16. AZguitar

    AZguitar Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    349
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Location:
    AZ
    And, for me...My guitar is cabled into a G70 and the out to Helix floor...and is that different then when I use the transmitter...brain freeze...I just know my tone sounds awesome FRFR and FOH.
     
  17. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Then the relevant impedance relationship is that of the transmitter (pretty sure 1 meg) and the input impedance of the modeler is irrelevant for you.
     
    AZguitar likes this.
  18. Yek

    Yek Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Luckily, the Tremolo block provides a very nice-sounding Bias Tremolo type as an alternative.
     
  19. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,164
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    So does my HX Stomp and a load of other devices. All of which are different than actually including bias modulation as part of the model of the amp.

    Again, I'm not criticizing the FM3 or faulting it for losing this feature at it's price point. Im just trying to figure out if it's right for me, or if I should just keep saving my pennies and go for an Axe III later down the road
     
    JiveTurkey likes this.
  20. Yek

    Yek Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Understandable.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice