Fractal Audio's New FM3

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by LqdSndDist, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    If you have an issue about the statements I quoted you will have to take them up with their author. I was merely pointing that there was a certain irony in his saying that one should be able to have full access to the the potential of the device's DSP in one instance (FM3), and acting as an apologist for a similar set of constraints in another (HX Stomp).
     
  2. Guitardave

    Guitardave Supporting Member

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    +1

    That's all that matters to me as well!

    Uh oh....an actual debate. :eek:

    FWIW I trust the technical insights and info Fractal (or Line 6, or Atomic, etc. puts out regarding their own products). But I'm a skeptic and definitely question the logic of the arguments being made. And I'm also fine with being totally wrong. There are some very technical folks around here who actually do understand this stuff way better than I do.

    I'm not familiar with what you are referencing regarding Fractal oversampling and aliasing statistics. Does it help support a conclusion that Fractal modeling is inherently more accurate and detailed than the Helix? The CPU load is being used to support that conclusion.

    BTW - in your example the logic wasn't circular. It's opinion - but the logic is internally consistent. Feel free to disagree...:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  3. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    I had the mini last summer for a couple months and my local shop has the 40 watter that I've played...40 watter is much better than the mini. The buttocks of the mini are also miniaturized. Good amp, not a great one, imo
     
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  4. yeky83

    yeky83 Member

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    :boxer
    Maybe I'm dumb about this, but I don't get the difference.
     
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  5. yeky83

    yeky83 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. Dave Merrill

    Dave Merrill Supporting Member

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    Only trade-off with a floor unit is floor vs rack and controller. The rest of that stuff is the same.
     
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  7. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    Right, but modelers aren't the only option. For those that can and prefer amps, "compact floor modeler vs. amp" can still provide sufficient convenience to go floor modeller where "rack and controller vs amp" doesn't offer anything to make the person choose modeller over amp.
     
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  8. ejecta

    ejecta Member

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    Exactly.
     
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  9. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    I really appreciate your responding at all - I imagine you're extremely busy right now - but this doesn't actually tell me anything new. Quantitatively speaking, "etc" is a pretty loaded term here; it could mean "and a couple other things", or it could mean "and a hundred other things" - the effect of which may or may not be cumulative. Qualitatively, it remains hard to judge what you mean by "superfluous", exactly. If these things were genuinely superfluous, and impacting on performance/ scalability, I'd expect them to be factored out of the AxeFX III codebase as well.

    Bottom line is I'll have to put an FM3 on my own desk and judge whether it's enough of a step up vs. my HX Stomp to warrant the expenditure. Looking forward to it, and expecting great things. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  10. JCW308

    JCW308 Supporting Member

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    It'll be better, come on!
     
  11. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    That's the $999 question. Proof's in the pudding; I brought my own spoon.
     
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  12. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    :rotflmao
     
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  13. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    For the record, I suspect you're right. But I've read lots of hype over the course of lots of generations of amp modeling only to find something disappointing.

    My expectation is that Ares amp/cab modeling will be somewhat better than HX amp/cab modeling, but something else about the FM3 will be a big PITA in comparison to HX Stomp and/or Helix Floor. Because that's the way it goes. :) So then I have to start weighing pros vs. cons vs. a pile of Benjamins. Because that's also the way it goes...
     
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  14. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    The Axe-Fx III contains various algorithms that allow you to enhance the amp modeling that don't exist on a real amp. I.e. dynamic presence/depth, input dynamic processing, etc. These were removed to allow the core amp modeling to run on the lower-powered processor.
     
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  15. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    It's more likely that it would support an assumption (or, after the fact, explain the observation) that the FAS stuff is less "squirrelly". That is to say, if the FAS stuff is less squirrelly?
     
  16. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    You'll find that ONE thing it doesn't have that you just need. An experience that I might know a thing or 76 about :anon
     
  17. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    That's helpful - thanks again. This is what I took from your use of the word "inauthentic" in an earlier post. So you would expect the FM3 to be able to provide the most accurate depiction of the real world amp in question, but perhaps be less versatile than the AxeFX III implementation. I'm comfortable with that. Hit me with your best shot; I wouldn't know what I was doing with the additional DEPs anyway. :D
     
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  18. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    If you think about it; it's kind of like letting the chips fall where they may and have the device stand on it's own versus a bunch of deep tweaks (which I never did anyway).
     
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  19. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    They are a very real thing. Returning to Helix they are still the first thing I notice in models. This is my first time with Helix through a cab extensively - this definitely dulls their presence and makes it sound more like artifacts I'm used to in real amps...but the way the artifacts present doesn't sound the way it does in the Kemper or the way I'm used to hearing it in real amps.

    I'm okay with it and haven't felt like throwing the Stomp out the window the way I did occasionally on particularly bad settings in Atomic ND Helix going direct, but it's also not just something I or others are just imagining or making up.
     
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  20. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    I'm going to make this a fair fight and compare the FM3 to the HX Stomp (even though the FM3 will have cost me more than twice as much.) If I compare it to the Helix Floor, the absence of VDI and mic input with phantom power are immediate knockouts (never mind the difference in DSP power.)

    Likely outcome is Helix Floor and Native stay in the studio; FM3 supplants Stomp and sits in one of the Floor's FX loops so I can print Ares wet as needed. And I buy my wife ~$500 worth of flowers to compensate. :D
     
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