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Fractal's NEW "Quantum(TM)" tube modeling technology

SnowfaLL

Member
Messages
918
Why buy an Axe-Fx if you're not searching for authenticity? Either way the point is that the quoted post seemed odd considering it's coming from an (ex-Fractal) engineer.

why would you buy an Axe-FX if you were searching for the most "authentic" tone?? That is where the Kemper comes into play, for the people who want an exact copy of the amp in a box. The AxeFX is a different product.

It sure sounds like that former ex-fractal engineer, who would know Cliff personally, knows that Cliff is just releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype. He even said it himself; firmware isnt "154460% more realer", its just different.
 

jzgtrguy

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,685
why would you buy an Axe-FX if you were searching for the most "authentic" tone?? That is where the Kemper comes into play, for the people who want an exact copy of the amp in a box. The AxeFX is a different product.

It sure sounds like that former ex-fractal engineer, who would know Cliff personally, knows that Cliff is just releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype. He even said it himself; firmware isnt "154460% more realer", its just different.

Doesn't the AXE-FX do Tone matching or is that completely different from what Kemper does?
 

Jerrod

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,884
why would you buy an Axe-FX if you were searching for the most "authentic" tone?? That is where the Kemper comes into play, for the people who want an exact copy of the amp in a box. The AxeFX is a different product.

It sure sounds like that former ex-fractal engineer, who would know Cliff personally, knows that Cliff is just releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype. He even said it himself; firmware isnt "154460% more realer", its just different.


WTH are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense either.
 

AdamCook

Member
Messages
362
why would you buy an Axe-FX if you were searching for the most "authentic" tone?? That is where the Kemper comes into play, for the people who want an exact copy of the amp in a box. The AxeFX is a different product.

It sure sounds like that former ex-fractal engineer, who would know Cliff personally, knows that Cliff is just releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype. He even said it himself; firmware isnt "154460% more realer", its just different.

Again, please don't read more into my post than what is there. I did not claim to know that Cliff is releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype.
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
23,133
Why buy an Axe-Fx if you're not searching for authenticity?
If by "authenticity" you mean exactly replicating the tone of a given amp, that was the furthest thing from my mind when I bought an Ultra and then the II.

My number one reason was that I wanted a tool that would allow me to switch amp tones and effects easily when recording. I knew the Axe FX (both generations) could do that well enough to meet my needs. I like the extensive control you have over so many parameters, the routing and switching options when used with the proprietary footswitch, and the elimination of the tap-dance when changing multiple effects at once.

The tones I get from the II going into a pair of CLRs is great…some of the best tones I've ever had, and I've received innumerable compliments on my tone from diehard analog traditionalists. "Authenticity", as it's used here meaning sounding just like a given tube amp has never been a concern.
 

MikeyG

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
12,240
Quantum is just a firmware appellation, which is quite different than a product name (like Helix)
Nice playing and tone on the video one page back BTW... Everyone was so busy arguing that no one apparently made any comments, what amp model was that?
 

shasha

Member
Messages
1,207
why would you buy an Axe-FX if you were searching for the most "authentic" tone?? That is where the Kemper comes into play, for the people who want an exact copy of the amp in a box. The AxeFX is a different product.

It sure sounds like that former ex-fractal engineer, who would know Cliff personally, knows that Cliff is just releasing new firmware with fancy names to generate hype. He even said it himself; firmware isnt "154460% more realer", its just different.
But it isn't an exact copy of the amp. Its a pretty damn good copy of a rig in a specific state. To say that it's the exact same as the amp implies that if you twist the knobs on the KPA that it is going to change the sound exactly the same way that the amp that it profiled would. This has been proven over and over again that it's not what it was designed to do and subsequently cannot do. It is designed to take a snapshot of a very specific configuration and if you try to deviate from that it can either be great or it can fall apart, but it never changes the same way that the original rig would.

But I came in to chime on the "most authentic tone" thing. Define authentic. Both boxes sure as hell sound like guitar amps to me. You put the same amp in two different people's hands and they sound completely different. Put two different guitars into the same rig and they sound different. Get two of the same exact amps with the same guy and they even sound different in many cases.

So which one of those scenarios would be considered the most authentic?

They all sound like real guitar to me.
 

barhrecords

Member
Messages
1,523
In my experience, most vintage holy grail amps, such as the Marshall Plexi, Vox AC30 and blackface Fender Twin, vary widely from amp to amp, even the same exact model and same exact year.

The cool thing about the Fractal and Kemper is you get not just any AC30, but really great AC30's as the basis for the models and profiles.

If you own, collect and use vintage amps, then you know what a godsend it is to get such a great tone. The reality for real vintage amp owners is most of your amps are in the repair shop or in need of some kind of repair :)
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
23,133
The reality for real vintage amp owners is most of your amps are in the repair shop or in need of some kind of repair :)
Absolutely, and not just vintage. I've got three amps that need work right now. It may only be preamp tubes but I've had my Axe FX for years and it's never needed maintenance. Not a single hiccup.
 

ejecta

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,838
Just for some balance in perspective... I've had amps for years that needed nothing more than a tube change. I also gigged tube amps for years without even changing tubes. Had a few amps that issues, even new, that were more than just tube issues but they were no big deal to get fixed. Things can and do go wrong with all gear..... even digital.
 
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mattball826

Senior Member
Messages
20,798
Absolutely, and not just vintage. I've got three amps that need work right now. It may only be preamp tubes but I've had my Axe FX for years and it's never needed maintenance. Not a single hiccup.

Good luck getting parts to fix it in ten years. nature of digital gear is sell it, get out of the production cycle, move parts, and create new product lines. It's more of a disposable product than it is a product of longevity.

Amps were made to last for years and even decades and be able to repair fairly easily. System board fails on a modeler that has been discontinued and its over for that user. There are many POD PRO units, and now 11R and a several other brands of modelers that you can't find parts to fix them. to the curb they go.

Amps can be repaired, pretty much anywhere by most competent techs. Many don't even need a schematic. That said, I still have many digital effect rack units 20 years old that work fine, and several that went to the curb.

Just fixed an old Gibson GA50T that a neighbor inherited. You won't fix 60 year old digital gear.
 

Doom Man

Member
Messages
588
Good luck getting parts to fix it in ten years. nature of digital gear is sell it, get out of the production cycle, move parts, and create new product lines. It's more of a disposable product than it is a product of longevity.

You won't fix 60 year old digital gear.

Sure, you're right to an extent, but....
I'd be shocked if there's enough of a market to justify continue producing audio tubes (which is ALREADY a niche market as is), amp suitable transformers and the like in 40 years, let alone 60. The only tubes left by then, if there is any, will be a bunch of hideously overpriced NOS hoarded by a bunch of people that can't let go of what will be incredibly antiquated tech by then.

And not all tube amps from the past are able to be fixed. Some have had to be thrown in the garbage or had their guts almost entirely overhauled to the point where it's pretty much not the same amp anymore simply because the parts needed to get them back in the original condition stopped being made a long time ago and supply of those parts have since ran out.
Tube amps are definitely not immune to this either, although I can agree it's probably more likely you can find more readily available parts for a current tube amp in 15-20 years.

You can't spend time worrying too much about that stuff anyway, you just gotta enjoy the gear while you've got it :)
 

wcfields

Member
Messages
1,691
Good luck getting parts to fix it in ten years. nature of digital gear is sell it, get out of the production cycle, move parts, and create new product lines. It's more of a disposable product than it is a product of longevity.

Amps were made to last for years and even decades and be able to repair fairly easily. System board fails on a modeler that has been discontinued and its over for that user. There are many POD PRO units, and now 11R and a several other brands of modelers that you can't find parts to fix them. to the curb they go.

Amps can be repaired, pretty much anywhere by most competent techs. Many don't even need a schematic. That said, I still have many digital effect rack units 20 years old that work fine, and several that went to the curb.

Just fixed an old Gibson GA50T that a neighbor inherited. You won't fix 60 year old digital gear.
Some good points. If you have system board, hardware issues etc..with any of the "older" (5 years+) modellers, you might as well just toss them.
 

Jerrod

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,884
Some good points. If you have system board, hardware issues etc..with any of the "older" (5 years+) modellers, you might as well just toss them.

Doubtful. If you're talking Line6, they milk their product lines FOREVER, so 5 years in they'll still be able to support them. Alternatively, replacement will be so cheap that it won't matter.

As for the other end of the spectrum, I don't see Fractal and Kemper not supporting for reasonable periods.
 

wcfields

Member
Messages
1,691
Doubtful. If you're talking Line6, they milk their product lines FOREVER, so 5 years in they'll still be able to support them. Alternatively, replacement will be so cheap that it won't matter.

As for the other end of the spectrum, I don't see Fractal and Kemper not supporting for reasonable periods.
That's what I mean, a lot of them won't be worth repairing (from a cost standpoint). Especially the older L6 stuff, 11R, those types....
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
23,133
Good luck getting parts to fix it in ten years. It's more of a disposable product than it is a product of longevity...That said, I still have many digital effect rack units 20 years old that work fine...
Those two statements seem to be in conflict. If I was bumping my gear around, or even using it for hours daily this might be a concern but my Axe FX sees limited use and never leaves my studio. Frankly, what a piece of gear will or won't do in ten or twenty years in not a major concern for me. I'm using it now, have been for years, and it's worked flawlessly.

The reality is that my Axe FX has never needed repair and I've spent hundreds of dollars and many hours keeping my tube amps working. Reality vs. hypothetical concern? Reality wins every time.
 
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ejecta

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,838
Man.... some of you guys have some really crappy luck with tube amps with all those hours down and money spent. Sure am glad that hasn't been my experience.
 

djd100

Member
Messages
3,076
+1

30 years of pro touring and recording experience with multiple tube amps world wide, and no failures on the gig yet ("knock on wood!" :D)? In all that time I've had one failed vintage Marshall at a rehearsal due to a bad attenuator not properly loading the OT, that's it.

Conversely my Axe FX needed a new Rotary Encoder right after the warranty expired and I had hardly used the front panel knob (it was a bad batch of parts during manufacturing I was told...), and I had to reboot a rented Fender modeling amp once on the gig as it just quit passing audio (though it worked again after cycling the AC?).

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

P.S. I have had rack mounted tube and digital gear destroyed by the airlines a few times though, but the Anvil ATA Flight Cases were severely damaged which isn't easy to do, so naturally anything inside was toast (United was the worst offender IME for those checking gear).


Man.... some of you guys have some really crappy luck with tube amps with all those hours down and money spent. Sure am glad that hasn't been my experience.
 
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