Free Idea for pedal builders…

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,896
I do think that the 1/4" jack/barrel style power adapter paradigm is seriously wrung out. Time for something more useful. I present you: neodymium! The Snapjack cable uses a neo magnet to hold cable and 1/4" jack together. Make a pedal enclosure (or just a bass plate) with neo magnets on each side-double concentric rings or 4 individual magnets. Each pedal would need jacks if it's the last pedal in the line, or if you want to power it separately, so those'd go on top. The pedals would simply snap together, held by the neo magnets, and supply power and signal to the next pedal in line. Using the super small pedals you could have a pedalboard with everything on it on a PT2 with space left over!
 

DaveKS

Member
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16,704
.....and the foot switches would be so close together you couldn't actually use them.
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,896
Just get some of those pointy New York shoes! OK, maybe gotta go with full sized enclosures…
 

David B

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,034
I do think that the 1/4" jack/barrel style power adapter paradigm is seriously wrung out. Time for something more useful. I present you: neodymium! The Snapjack cable uses a neo magnet to hold cable and 1/4" jack together. Make a pedal enclosure (or just a bass plate) with neo magnets on each side-double concentric rings or 4 individual magnets. Each pedal would need jacks if it's the last pedal in the line, or if you want to power it separately, so those'd go on top. The pedals would simply snap together, held by the neo magnets, and supply power and signal to the next pedal in line. Using the super small pedals you could have a pedalboard with everything on it on a PT2 with space left over!
I've said it plenty, if pedals are going to keep getting smaller then the 1/4" jack needs to go, after that we need to stop making feet 4"+ wide. :)

Ditching the entire 1/4" jack for an open project (no patent, no greed) that left much more room inside pedals would be great, I've probed a bit on this subject over the last few years. It would be risky considering the very conservative nature of guitar players, change always comes hard...hence the enormous 1/4" jacks/plugs from yester-decade.

I'm not sure exactly what all the magnets are for in your idea, it sounds very similar to the Apple charger that has been around for years, except the purpose of the magnet is to make the Apple connector pop off without straining the cable if it gets snagged, where guitar players are looking for a secure connection that does not pop off mid performance. How do the magnets make the jack more compact/smaller? What creates the electrical connection?
 

David B

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,034
.....and the foot switches would be so close together you couldn't actually use them.
:aok

We are pretty much there already with the 1.5" wide toddler-pedals, shoes for men are 4" + wide, yet subscribers to Quixotic Life magazine are still calling for "even smaller pedals!". :)

Feet are the limiting factor on putting pedals closer together.
 

bt2513

Member
Messages
859
Seems like 1/8" patch cords could also suffice for saving space and are more available, supplier friendly until the industry can agree on specs for something better. Would work the same way OP described: a set of 1/4" to plug into, a set of 1/8" for patching.
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,720
Right Angle Fiber Optics FORR ALL !!!!


I mean, screw those cable capacitance arguments.

Oh yeah, and now we all get to complain about 100mHz photo/digital noise in our golden ears.
:p
 

jdel77

Member
Messages
10,114
Here is my free idea:

Big pedals with top mount jacks and switches that are really designed to be stomped on. And battery powered with an on/off switch so I don't have to unplug them. If it takes more than a battery just have a big AC plug coming out of it.

/thread
So the 70's pretty much! :dude
Fair enough. What pedals back then lacked in functionality they sure made up for in mojo. Love that period of electronics.
 

ironman28

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
611
Seems like 1/8" patch cords could also suffice for saving space and are more available, supplier friendly until the industry can agree on specs for something better. Would work the same way OP described: a set of 1/4" to plug into, a set of 1/8" for patching.
Getting the manufacturers to agree on a new standard is the first hurdle. Without some standards each mfg can develop thier own which locks the user into using one mfg pedals. Yamaha had a interconnect standard for thier pedals in the 80s


Of course it was only for Yamaha pedals and never intended for other mfgs. The P3 standard looks like a option for power: http://www.dcvoltage.net/

I think a DIN connector with multiple pins could be a viable option. The new Mini-din connectors look pretty rugged and could be used for MIDI, power and in/out.
 

tubetonez

Member
Messages
357
My pet pedal idea....something similar to a Cornish board, with modular components for individual FX. Power and I/O supplied from the back plane. A standardized module size, somewhat like a computer card. These could be single, double, or even triple width if an effect needs a lot of knobs and/or PCB real estate.

Effect manufacturers could sell modular versions of their pedals, at a lower cost than a standalone pedal since less tooling and parts would be required. Footswitches on the master board control TB loops for every effect. Less possibility of noise or signal loss, as the loops would be internally wired, not running through multiple plugs and jacks. DIP switch options to have some modules "always on", or two or more connect in series or parallel stereo.
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,896
Sorry, Dave B, I may not have made myself clear. I'm envisioning something very like the Mac connector-4 neo magnets on the side that connect to the 4 neo magnets on the next pedal. Signal, signal ground, power, power ground (could probably get by with 3 and combined grounds). It wouldn't save money, because you'd still need 1/4" jacks and power inputs on at least one pedal on each end.

tubetonez, that's been done at least 3 or 4 times. Korg had the PME40x, but didn't open up the standard. Devi Ever had her Kickstarter that died. Zvex had his system, but again, wanted to keep proprietary control of it so no one else signed up. I know there was another one that seemed like a great idea but hasn't gone anywhere. Oh, and Dave Fox has released some of the details of his cards so that you can build your own, but I'm not sure if that could be adapted for anything but drive pedals? It's a good idea but getting more than 1 or 2 companies on board is like herding cats. In the pro sound world, though, the Colour Palette appears to be catching on (a 500 series module with 3 replaceable cards that can do almost anything-you can set it up with tape saturation, fuzz, delay, compression, transformer drive etc). Maybe they just get along better than guitarists.
 

ahhcrickets

Member
Messages
202
Somebody already said it, but I can't stress the importance of top mounted jacks. Should be a obvious design platform, and the new universal standard.
 

David B

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,034
Sorry, Dave B, I may not have made myself clear. I'm envisioning something very like the Mac connector-4 neo magnets on the side that connect to the 4 neo magnets on the next pedal. Signal, signal ground, power, power ground (could probably get by with 3 and combined grounds). It wouldn't save money, because you'd still need 1/4" jacks and power inputs on at least one pedal on each end.
The rare-earth magnet in the Apple magsafe is only there to pull the power connector to the laptop connector (which does not have a magnet) and let go easily of the cord gets yanked. The magnets do not carry power or signal, it's just essentially a safe latch, something that guitar players probably don't want, they want the "don't let go in the middle of my gig" connection" :eek:.

It's good that the idea of a new smaller profile connector is getting into the dialog. Getting builders and players to agree on a perfect connector will be quite a feat, getting guitar players to let go of the 1/4" standard may be even harder. I say it everyday, "guitar players are worlds most conservative rebels"...

"57 strat, all stock including nickel strings? check!
59 Bassman with original caps and tubes? check!
Cool, lets go change the world with our radically new tunes!"...

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...XT&s1=7311526.PN.&OS=PN/7311526&RS=PN/7311526
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,896
Yeah, just like that! So, Dave, as the guy with boots on the ground, if you could pick one available connector to do the duty from here on out, what would it be? It'd have to be cheaply obtained, reasonably easy to solder (for the DIYers), more reliable than 1/4" would be nice, smaller would be critical, especially in the amount of space it takes up outside the pedal.

Some brave builder could do this, include a pair of 1/4" to "new adapter" cables with every pedal (or dual ended "new adapter" pedals if preferred for someone who's going to use multiple pedals from the same guy)!
 






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