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FRFR I'm done - Sort of....maybe...well maybe not!

Messages
1,681
A little background, I've run sound for bands. Where the contract does not allow for a sound man, I run sound for my band also.

We own a very good PA system suitable for a crowd of around 200 people, anything more and we have to rent extra boxes. We have the option of using IEM's for monitoring or QSC K10's. The selection of monitoring depends on the room and whether the contract allows for a sound man. Most of the time I run a hybrid, where most of the band uses the IEM's and I run a K10 monitor.
Our PA tops are Yorkville NX55P and they are pretty much an industry standard for the type of application we use em for... Good sound, extremely reliable.
Yesterday we finished the setup/soundcheck around 5pm and while the rest of the band went to relax, I had the whole hall to myself, bohahaha...so I stuck around and did some experimenting.

I had tried the NX55P as a personal vocal floor monitor and it sounds good, I also tried it as a guitar FRFR in the past and it did not sound very well at all. Way too much bottom end! And not very representative of the FOH sound. However, mounted on a pole above the sub facing the hall. Everything sounds fantastic and clear...including guitars, very defined and clear.

In contrast the QSC K10 on a pole sounds thinner. As a FRFR it sounds very good and represents the FOH sound better....BUT....I find it depends how you use it in the in the monitoring position.

Elevated in a vertical position, about 3 to 4 ft off the ground it sounds very harsh. Tried it both a side fill and front fill. Tweater in the face sound...Yuk!
On its side used it as a monitor, on the floor of a wooden stage, it sounds much better. Tried both as side fill and front fill.
On its side, on top of a plastic gator rack case, acceptable but not as good as on the floor.
On the diagonal from me, on its side on top of sub woofer it's sounds good also.

So i guess the moral of the story is to keep in mind, that while people discuss gear on this forum and advance all kinds of comparisons based on specs or personal experience/opinion. I find that in my experience the same box sounds quite different depending on the environment. Like Scott P mentioned in another post, these things are not miracle boxes!

So when your looking for a new box, I recommend you look at how it will be used most of the time and try to evaluate/test it in that context if possible...I have a feeling that you'll be happier with your purchase, long term...
 

mdme_sadie

Member
Messages
549
Yup, the environment is nearly everything and is nearly always forgotten (not to mention the fallacy of FRFR in the first place, and of course every speaker and enclosure will project differently). Clubs aren't treated spaces so you get a hell of a lot of reflections and a very uneven frequency response, there's no real solution of course as once you fill a club with bodies the sound changes dramatically again.

One thing though, no matter what speaker you're using you can help your cause a bunch with some careful EQing. I hesitate to use Ethan Winer as a source as people can react a bit strangely towards any mention of him, but honestly he has some fantastic advice and tools on his site to help you sort out your space : http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm
 

Jay Mitchell

Member
Messages
5,513
Conventional FRFR speakers are almost entirely at the mercy of the environments in which they are operated. This is due to a number of factors related to cost of manufacture, marketing-driven design, and just plain ignorance of the nature of interactions that occur between sources of sound and acoustic environments. It is not inevitable, however. It is possible to design a loudspeaker such that the differences in sound due to operation in different environments are kept to a minimum.
 

HCarlH

Member
Messages
803
When my K10 (used with 11R) is sideways on the floor, it's way too bassy. I have to either put it on an amp stand sideways at my side, on a stick, or sideways about a foot off the ground on my Rock N Roller cart.

Plus when it's on the amp stand, it's easier for me to hear and I don't get "You're too loud" complaints from the rest of the band.
 
Messages
1,681
When my K10 (used with 11R) is sideways on the floor, it's way too bassy. I have to either put it on an amp stand sideways at my side, on a stick, or sideways about a foot off the ground on my Rock N Roller cart.

Plus when it's on the amp stand, it's easier for me to hear and I don't get "You're too loud" complaints from the rest of the band.
Interesting post. As I mentionned above, our FOH mains are naturally strong on the bass. I find having the the K10 on the floor correlates better to what I normally hear coming out of the FOH mains.
 






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