Friedman BE100, AX8 and KPA blind test.

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by timowens316, May 5, 2016.

  1. timowens316

    timowens316 Member

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    By request, here is a blind test comparing the AX8 and KPA to a real BE100. I played a riff into a looper and then recorded the riff through the Friedman BE100, AX8 and KPA (but maybe not in that order). The only post processing was trying to levelize the riffs, this did not include any compression, just adjusting the level of each take. Can you tell which is which? If you can tell us what song each of the riffs is from you get an extra 1000 internet points :D






    All the files can be found here, including wav format clips, the cab IR, the AX8 presets and the KPA profiles. For the KPA profiles, I included the Direct Amp and Studio profiles so you can make Merged profiles if you want, the last character tells you if it's a (D)irect Amp or (S)tudio profile. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k4olt5o6b8kcmr5/AADAW-HRyDEsOaJrai1ZI4kia?dl=0

    If you try the cab IR please let me know what you think.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
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  2. Pat6969

    Pat6969 Supporting Member

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    Just as I suspected! With my eyes closed and my mind focused, I heard very subtle differences but cannot tell you which is which. They all sound great to me and I would use any of them and be happy.
     
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  3. KSL

    KSL Member

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    Thanks so much for this.

    My first impression guess off my iPhone speakers is:

    1. BE100 -sounds like a cab miced
    2. Kemper -missing depth
    3. Fratal -fractal sound

    1 and 3 are hard to tell as I've heard the AFX sound either way depending on IR.

    Will give it a go with headphones tomorrow.
     
  4. KSL

    KSL Member

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    And all the songs are POD tunes? :)
     
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  5. timowens316

    timowens316 Member

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    Well, you got one out of four :)
     
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  6. KSL

    KSL Member

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    Ahaha

    Edit: are the amps in the same order on the clips?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  7. RLD

    RLD Member

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    Can't you tell? ;)
     
  8. timowens316

    timowens316 Member

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    I should clarify something, in this test I didn't mic the amp/cab, I loaded the amp down with the cab but I used a Torpedo CAB for the recording, last time I did mic the amp/cab. Using the Torpedo CAB on the amp seemed to level the playing field a bit, so it makes me wonder about not using IR's but instead running everything into the cab and micing the cab. I will probably try that next as I prefer to use a real guitar cab whenever I can, and the KPA merged profiles have been working great for that.
     
  9. ToneCaptain

    ToneCaptain Member

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    I vote
    1. ax8
    2. BE
    3. kpa
     
  10. geese_com

    geese_com Member

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    Thanks for doing this. I am listening through headphones and there are definitely differences between the three . They all sound good though. Can't really say I like any one over the other. I currently own a Kemper and used to own a BE100.

    My guess is:

    1) Amp
    2) Kemper
    3) AX8
     
  11. redmonda

    redmonda Member

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    I have no idea which is which, but I prefer the tone of #2. It feels more well rounded to me. The 3rd had a high frequency hiss that I didn't care for much at all. Thanks for posting the clips!
     
  12. jazzfromhell

    jazzfromhell Member

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    No clue. #1 and #2 sounded the best and almost identical so Im guessing those are Kemper and BE. #3 sounded....worse. That would be the Axe then.
    But Im just guessing. #3 could very well be the Kemper.....
     
  13. djd100

    djd100 Member

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    Cool...

    If you do this again, you should play all through the same cab or IR, preferably with a recorded input so everything is identical. That input should include power chords, complex chords featuring seconds and tri-tones, single notes, diads (pedal steel style bends both low and high on the neck), triads, long notes/chords sustaining into silence (with and without vibrato), with the guitar volume up, rolled off some, rolled of a lot, all at three or four positions covering the range of the neck, with differing pickups, and done staccato and legato etc. Obviously a lot to consider, but if you can include some of the major aspects it would be good.

    There are obvious differences between the modelers and the tube amp, though which is "better" is in the ears of the beholder (it's subjective as all sound good, and a lot of these differences do become minimized in dense mixes etc).

    The main differences I still notice between tube gear and modelers is in the transient response, high harmonics, distortion/freq response over the entire envelope of sustaining sounds, sustaining sounds into silence (the tail/release of distorted sounds into silence), general warmth etc. The majority of these differences are generated by the preamps as I often use a modeled tube power amp with various tube preamps without being bothered by these things.

    Getting the linear aspects of a source amp/cab/speaker isn't too hard these days, it's the non-linear aspects that are tough.

    Cheers...




     
  14. buddy62

    buddy62 Rock N Roll Ain't Noise Pollution Silver Supporting Member

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    1 - AX8
    2 - Kemper
    3 - BE
     
  15. Kentano2000

    Kentano2000 Member

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    1- BE
    1- Kemper
    3- AX8
     
  16. Pat6969

    Pat6969 Supporting Member

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    Almost certain he used the Torpedo so he could use the same IR with every device including the real amp so everything is identical.
     
  17. marshall2553

    marshall2553 Supporting Member

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    If that's the case I'm kind of shocked by the differences I hear in the last two clips.
     
  18. TimeSnow

    TimeSnow Member

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    1. BE
    2. KPA
    3. AX8
     
  19. marshall2553

    marshall2553 Supporting Member

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    I checked out the AX8 presets, they're using the old BE/HBE models. Those were recently redone based on a newer example of the BE100. The amp that the original models were based on had some issues and was darker and bassier than it should have been.
     
  20. Pat6969

    Pat6969 Supporting Member

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    The IR sounds pretty darn close to me, sounds more like an EQing difference which would make more sense. Not sure how you know Tim is using the old BE model though?
     

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