Frustrated in Wisconsin

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by enge, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. enge

    enge Member

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    ok..ok...I don't want to hear any "well just get the heck out of Wisconsin...then you won't be frustrated anymore" (LOL) Anywho, has anybody out there gone from a pedalboard configuration (with seperate pedals) to a multi-effects set-up, i.e. the Zoom G2, Boss GT10, or something of that nature. Is there anything out there that really sounds good. Thanks for the help!!!:bkw
     
  2. fellsilver

    fellsilver Member

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    Ugh... another Wisconsinite here... and I've got a leaking roof! Thankfully it isn't leaking anywhere near my effects. Which, in reply to the initial question, I have jumped back and forth between pedals and multieffectors several times. Multis are great for convenience, but I ALWAYS find myself coming back to individual stomp boxes. There's just more... "anarchy" in the tone, more tweakability, and more options, and dimensions of options, to explore.

    Having said this, the only thing I've seen that might force me to eat these words is the new Digitech RP 500. It's supposed to model an entire pedal board. Haven't tried one, but there are plenty of places to pick them up around here, at least, once they become available.
     
  3. TheGrooveking

    TheGrooveking Member

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    To me it depends on a few things, one being application, meaning if you are playing a setlists and you need each song to have preset programs, then a multiple effects unit is a prefered method of handling that versus all of the tap dancing and knob twiddling necessary to go from say clean with a little chorus to a screaming lead with delay.

    Secondly, for just finding tones and or jamming with people a standard pedalboard offers more immediacy, but you are limited. Another thing is many multieffects units, like the BOSS ME & GT series allow you to set the unit up, like a pedalboard and use the switches for each effect in a program that has been setup. I gigged for years using a BOSS GT-3 with a wah & vibe & RX Experience into the Gt-3 and two TS9's in the loop. I ran a VHT Valvulator into it to help warm up the tone and to power the pedals. It was a very flexible system and I could use it with headphones, into amps, into a power amp or directly into the board. So those options made it great. Once I became familar with the unit programming it was a breeze.

    As to the separate pedals thing it seems faster and easier just to twist knobs to change tones, but once you get familar with the multi-effects unit, it becomes a moot point. It's more of looking at the result and determing how to get there versus, over thinking the process.

    TheGrooveking
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008
  4. peacebone

    peacebone Member

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    Friends don't let friends use multiFX.

    :BEER
     
  5. enge

    enge Member

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    Thanks everybody.....I kinda figured I'd get mixed feelings on the subject. It's been a while since I"ve heard a multi set up. All I remember at that time is that the whole unit sounded so overly processed. I think it was a Boss. Not sure of the model. I was just throwing this out to see if anyone currently was using one....which one....and how happy they were with it. Sounds like Grooveking had (or has) a pretty sweet setup with his!
     
  6. anxiousmofo

    anxiousmofo Member

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    get an Eclipse or AxeFX or stick with your board.
     
  7. Lt_Core

    Lt_Core Supporting Member

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    Another wet Wisconsinite here......my basement never gets wet but it's starting to seep through.

    Anyway, I keep thinking I want a multi-effects pedal like a Modfactor or Modulator but the single effects boxes always sound better to my ears.
     
  8. Gtrman100

    Gtrman100 Member

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    I can't say that I exclusively use a multifx, but I do use a Pod X3L sometimes and a pedal board sometimes. Don't let the naysayers delude you, there is a difference between the ultimate quality of the effects, but the Pod sounds very good and is much easier to set up and use.

    For my cover band gigs, I love the convenience of the Pod- it's so much easier to go from sound to sound- Marshall rhythm sound dry to Soldano Lead with delay for example. Or Deluxe Reverb clean to Dual Rectifier crunch with rotary, compression and reverb.

    I've got some great pedals, and for the best quality of individual effects, the stompboxes are best. But for me it's not night and day.

    Also, most of the presets in the modelers are crap, you need to spend a good amount of time learning to tweak the box, and tweaking it for your particular amp or monitor.
     
  9. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    Just my experience...mutli-effects (like Tonelab, digitech RP-7, etc.) to ME are not usable live. I still have a few, and really have a lot of fun with them, but they are way too much trouble for me personally.

    But others use them well and sound great. So it really depends on what kind of player you are. For me, the biggest drawbacks are....

    - limited to what effects can be on at the same time. Most, if they have a foot treadle...you could pick wah OR volume, but not both. I think the Tinelab SE got around this with two treadles...but...with Tonelabs, you cannot pick wah and OD I think it was. Seriously dumb, as they go together like hand in glove.

    - Limited to what they give you. You COULD add (for the answer to the first problem) an outboard wah or volume pedal (wah is smarter cause then you could use the OD!) but they have to interac well, and suddenly you are losing the benefit of All-in-one. Also if they have a great OD, but crappy tremolo, you are stuck. With pedals you mix and match.

    BUT...the two biggest drawbacks for me, the "deal breakers" are:

    - Knowing what you have chosen in a patch. You get to choose usually say a modulation effect...or say a time-based effect...but HOW are they set? Is the mod set to vibe or tremolo? What is the OD set to...when I go to this patch will it be a clean sound or OD????
    I have yet to see a ME unit that visually can tell you where things are or will be going while you are playing. SO the choice becomes to have set patches for each song (you STILL have to remember what is what!) or use only 3 or 4 you can always remember, maybe with special few for some songs. And you will have to tweak these as well...patches that you thought were fantastic at home playing alone, get washed out in a band. That effervescent delay, pure Gilmour, and sublime phasing you got going at home...just sound like some weak plinking guitar in a band mix suddenly. It can be a real shock...you spend hours working up these cool sounds, and get all excited, start playing and nothing sounds right. Plus you can loose the patches. and...

    - HUGE problem for me, relative volume. You program them at home, get the volumes "the same" at what you think is almost gig-volume, Get to the gig, play the one patch, change patches and suddenly NO sound, or WAY too loud. I find it almost impossible to get patches to sound the same levels.

    - You have to get an amp that will handle it. I find some of my best amps, sound like crap with an ME (even in the effects return).

    On top of all that, you have one source of failure. The power supply or the ME itself blows, you got no effects at all.

    BUT...I love the things for at home plinking, studio, recording. I just plain cannot use them with my bands.

    But others get around all these problems somehow and make it work.
    I'm just not one of them.
     
  10. dougb415

    dougb415 Member

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    I'm from the UP and even I know that multi-FX are a no-no. Now go do what cheeseheads do best :drink
     
  11. enge

    enge Member

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    I hear ya doug415!!!!:BEER
     
  12. enge

    enge Member

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    StompBoxBlues.......thanks for your thoughts. I agree with most of your assessment.
     
  13. Gtrman100

    Gtrman100 Member

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    Stompbox Blues- just a few points. It seems you're not that familiar with some of the more sophisticated MFX like Pod X3 and Boss GT-8.10

    - limited to what effects can be on at the same time. Most, if they have a foot treadle...you could pick wah OR volume, but not both. I think the Tinelab SE got around this with two treadles...but...with Tonelabs, you cannot pick wah and OD I think it was. Seriously dumb, as they go together like hand in glove.

    With Pod X3L the Boss MFX, add an expression pedal and you get separate Wah and Volume. They don't interact, they work just like outboard ones, except that you can pick where you want the volume pedal in the chain, pre or post amp or effects.

    BUT...the two biggest drawbacks for me, the "deal breakers" are:

    - Knowing what you have chosen in a patch...

    You're right in that there is no visual representation for each effect on your main screen when you're playing a patch normally, but, since you can tweak a patch and store it for a particular song, why would you want to tweak it much anyway? And, you could use the tap tempo to change delay or mod effects to fit the tempo of the song on the fly if you need to.

    - HUGE problem for me, relative volume. You program them at home, get the volumes "the same" at what you think is almost gig-volume, Get to the gig, play the one patch, change patches and suddenly NO sound, or WAY too loud. I find it almost impossible to get patches to sound the same levels.

    I don't understand why you would have no sound, maybe a bit low or high, but all MFX have a channel volume that's right in front of you, just like the volume control on your amp. Give it a little twirl, hit the store button twice, and you're done! I usually tweak my patches at rehearsal, so gigs go pretty smoothly. Having many different amp models to play with makes it harder to level things out, but it really just a matter of taking the time to do it right.


    - You have to get an amp that will handle it. I find some of my best amps, sound like crap with an ME (even in the effects return).

    That probably true but mine sounds very good through my Mesa Lonestar, HRDx, Groove Tubes Soul-O 45, Matchless, and Blues Jr.

    -On top of all that, you have one source of failure. The power supply or the ME itself blows, you got no effects at all.

    That, to me is the most legitimate beef- but I always have a backup for any gig.

    BUT...I love the things for at home plinking, studio, recording. I just plain cannot use them with my bands.

    But others get around all these problems somehow and make it work.
    I'm just not one of them.[/quote]

    I'm not trying to convince you that the MFX are the end-all and be-all, I love my stomps too. But MFX get a lot of snob put downs really for no real good reason. What ever floats your boat, they're all tools to make music!
     
  14. emjee

    emjee Member

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    I went from stomps to a Quadrafex, an ART, a Boss SE-50, back to stomps, but this was ten years ago. Stayed with stomps ever since but a student brought over a Digitech RP-80 and I could not believe the advances that had been made in the many years I had been away from ME boxes. The RP didnt make me give up my stomps, but I was amazed at the sounds that little sucker put out. I could sound like Satriani, Santana in the 60's, 70's, 80's 90's and 00's, a patch that could sound like a talk box, and all kinds of crazy sounds. It is cool, but not cool enough to make me give up my bjf, dam, Moogerfooger, stomps. Some people have both!

    Matt
     
  15. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    I'm not trying to convince you that the MFX are the end-all and be-all, I love my stomps too. But MFX get a lot of snob put downs really for no real good reason. What ever floats your boat, they're all tools to make music![/quote]

    Thanks for the input. I realize, and tried to convey, that MFX ARE great for some folks. That was why I tried, other than listing my personal difficulties or reasons for not liking them live, to point out that some of us are just "types" that it will work okay, others have another style. No put downs at all in there, actually the opposite...I have huge respect for folks that can use them live. I just can't.

    I need to be ble to glance down and know what effects I have set for what type. On the "once you have it set..why would you want to tweak it.." point...having to remember that in "More than a Hammer" the delay is set short, but on "do re mi" it is set long, etc. is too much putting me in my head. It takes me out of the music. With pedals, I set or change them before a song, or during, but at a glance I know how the delay is set, etc. but even there (just to show how much I am not a candidate for live MFX) when I have had too many choices...OD wise it makes it difficult for me.
    Which is another point...too many choices and I end up getting to into it...when making patches, etc.

    I find it almost pointless to make a patch at home, because all the lush delay and fine sounds I get get washed away in the band. I would have to make the patches with that in mind, then when playing with the group in rehearsal adjust them...tweaking...and that would try the patience of my band and also be tuned to the room. Get into a different room and more tweaks.

    When I wrote "no sound" I didn't mean none...just a much bigger drop than I would want. I tried many things, multiple patches for one song, etc, but at band levels it was too difficult for me to get the same levels...and though one can adjust as soon as one hears it is too low or high, I find it takes me out of the song, and the moment has passed.

    I don't usually get these problems with stombox effects. I love playing with the RP-7 (which I think is way underrated, it's old and not as many bels and whistles but cool! But it has menus and submenus and tricky time consuming to change them) and the Tonelab LE (of the ones I tried, this was the easiest to change on the fly and also see what is chosen, but just not enough), but I am also going more to the amp to get my OD nowdays, and simplifying..nowdays using a delay, wah, maybe vibe, maybe fuzz...and tuner.

    I think too...if you had a cover band and were having to have tons of different sounds, had pretty much set solos, or at least soundwise what they should sound like, MFX is maybe the way to go. Patch for each song, etc. But if you are in a blues band, or jam band...I think pedals are more "natural" as far as tweaking on the fly, knowing what sound you will get when you turn it on, etc.

    Depends on people is all. No judgement for others, just judged that for me it doesn't work out. I know guys that don't want ANY pedals, so...it's all relative.
     
  16. Gtrman100

    Gtrman100 Member

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    I'm totally copacetic with that, man! I respect where you're coming from.
     

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