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Fryette LXII power amp

kruts

Member
Messages
380
Has anyone picked up one of these? How does it sound? Worth the $1399 USD?

I'm considering a power amp for a W/D/W setup to power the Wet cabinets. Fryette was one of my considerations as I already have a 2/50/2 which I love as a power amp in a slave setup: Suhr SL68 -> Suhr RL -> 2/50/2 (mono) -> 4x12 cabinet
 
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BakerySpecial

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
490
Looks cool. But aside from the internal adjustable trimmers on the presence and depth, I can't figure out how it is different from the synergy Syn-5050 which is $200 cheaper?
 

mallcorn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
644
Has anyone picked up one of these? How does it sound? Worth the $1399 USD?

I'm considering a power amp for a W/D/W setup to power the Wet cabinets. Fryette was one of my considerations as I already have a 2/50/2 which I love as my main slave amp, e.g. Suhr SL68 -> Suhr RL -> 2/50/2 -> 4x12 cabinet
Stick to your Two/Fifty/Two or get another one. The big reason due to power tubes. Your SL68 sounds killer thru the Two/Fifty/Two because they both have EL34s. If you use 6L6 for your wets, they are going to sound a little different.
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
Stick to your Two/Fifty/Two or get another one. The big reason due to power tubes. Your SL68 sounds killer thru the Two/Fifty/Two because they both have EL34s. If you use 6L6 for your wets, they are going to sound a little different.
Oh, wow. Ok I didn't realize this would be the case. Yes, the Suhr SL68 does sound A+++ with the 2/50/2.

Do you have any other wisdom to share regarding speakers, or anything else related to the W/D/W setup? Should I keep to the same speakers for the Wet? 1x12 cabs for the Wet? Other?

Much appreciated!
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
Looks cool. But aside from the internal adjustable trimmers on the presence and depth, I can't figure out how it is different from the synergy Syn-5050 which is $200 cheaper?
Good point... the synergy SYN-500 is Fryette designed, which I didn't realize until today. And it's $200 USD cheaper @ $1199, compared to the $1399 price for the LXII.

Thanks for raising this to my attention!
 

mallcorn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
644
Oh, wow. Ok I didn't realize this would be the case. Yes, the Suhr SL68 does sound A+++ with the 2/50/2.

Do you have any other wisdom to share regarding speakers, or anything else related to the W/D/W setup? Should I keep to the same speakers for the Wet? 1x12 cabs for the Wet? Other?

Much appreciated!
Here is some of what I have found from testing. I have tried different speakers for wet than dry and don't notice much but I use Alnico 90watt Creams for everything. My dry cab is a StoneAge 2x12C, my wet cabs are Bogner 1x12 cubes. The signal from dry amp to effects is pretty important. I have tried several different techniques but the two I liked the most are Torpedo Live or Suhr RL although these are two different approaches.

The Torpedo Live adds IRs to the signal after the effects so what the wet speakers produce is more like a Studio record where the reverb/delay is added after the fact to the recorded track. In this example using the Torpedo Live, you can adjust type and placement of microphones along with the type of speaker cab used for the sound before sending this signal on the the two wet cabs. Like a recording studio would do - record the dry track with mics and placement, then add the wet effects during the mixing process. In this example you could also use studio monitors for the playback of wet effects since they already have the speaker cab IR added by the Torpedo Live.

The Suhr RL has probably the best line-out signal you can get which represents a 4x12 cab with greenbacks. What people don't realize this device can do is by sending the dry amp signal on thru the line-out (no dry speaker cab used), you are dropping your volume by 3db, sort of a clean way to attenuate a 100watt down to a 50watt in terms of volume. You could do this running wet/dry by placing effects between the Suhr RL line-out and the Two/Fifty/Two power amp you already have. Using the Suhr RL to effects and then on to the wet amp, best represents a live sound. I actually like both of these methods and don't think one is superior to the other.

I do think your Stereo Power Amp is important which we touched on earlier. In your case with the Suhr SL-68, you could use the MV to control the volume somewhat. I know most if not all MV have a sweet spot where they work really well so find that spot and you might not need the Suhr RL to control the volume. If this is the case, then you have all the gear you need - Suhr SL-68 thru Suhr RL on to dry cab, line-out signal to wet effects and then on to Two/Fifty/Two for w/d/w.
 
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Blix

Norwegian
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,245
What people don't realize is by using this device and sending the dry amp signal on to the dry cab, you are dropping your volume by 3db, sort of a clean way to attenuate a 100watt down to a 50watt in terms of volume.
This only applies if you use the SRL in a separate speaker output on the amp, and the cab on another output. If you use the "through" jack on the SRL the internal load is disabled and the cab is the load.
 

bailydread

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
160
I have heard that these are basically just two Power Stations in one rack unit with a mono bridged mode. I use a PS 1 as a power amp and I enjoy the tone quite a lot.

If you'd like to save a few hundred dollars you could look into the PS 100 from Fryette, which is new. It's just a 100 watt version of the PS 2 w/ KT66's instead of 6L6. Not sure if it's on the Fryette site yet but don't think so. This has a 100 watt power section that would likely sound different from the 6L6 based power sections.
 

mallcorn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
644
This only applies if you use the SRL in a separate speaker output on the amp, and the cab on another output. If you use the "through" jack on the SRL the internal load is disabled and the cab is the load.
You are right, I stand corrected. I do believe that I recall when this was shared with me by John Suhr, I was doing exactly that. Using the Suhr RL to load an amp with no thru speaker being used and then using the line-out to send the amp signal to another amp. My mistake post above corrected.
 
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mallcorn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
644
I have heard that these are basically just two Power Stations in one rack unit with a mono bridged mode. I use a PS 1 as a power amp and I enjoy the tone quite a lot.

If you'd like to save a few hundred dollars you could look into the PS 100 from Fryette, which is new. It's just a 100 watt version of the PS 2 w/ KT66's instead of 6L6. Not sure if it's on the Fryette site yet but don't think so. This has a 100 watt power section that would likely sound different from the 6L6 based power sections.
Guitar Sanctuary in McKinney where I live has these (PS-100) in stock. But these are mono not stereo therefore no w/d/w and not EL34 power tubes.
 
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Ian

Member
Messages
940
I think that the VHT 252 that you have now is the ticket! ;)

I have one of these as well, and it replaced a Matrix GT-800 SS power amp....which is fine for www, but for stereo slaving I WAY prefer the VHT! :)

I get the sense that the new Freyette power amp was designed for use with modellers, and the fact that the presence and depth controls are on internal trimmers is just dumb to me....

Cheers!
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
I think that the VHT 252 that you have now is the ticket! ;)

I have one of these as well, and it replaced a Matrix GT-800 SS power amp....which is fine for www, but for stereo slaving I WAY prefer the VHT! :)

I get the sense that the new Freyette power amp was designed for use with modellers, and the fact that the presence and depth controls are on internal trimmers is just dumb to me....

Cheers!
Are you running a W/D/W setup? If so, are you slaving for the Dry sound? And if so, what are you using to amplify the 2 wets and 1 dry?

I agree, the 2/50/2 is just killer in a Suhr SL68 -> Suhr RL -> 2/50/2 setup.
 
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kruts

Member
Messages
380
Guitar Sanctuary in McKinney where I live has these (PS-100) in stock. But these are mono not stereo therefore no w/d/w and not EL34 power tubes.
Yeah, if I run my wets with the 2/50/2, then I need a EL-34 power amp for the dry signal (since I'm slaving my Suhr SL68 with the Suhr RL). I could just use the power amp of a JCM 800 2203X effects return. But I am hoping to find a rack based mono or stereo EL-34 power amp... another 2/50/2 would be the ticket!
 

Ian

Member
Messages
940
Are you running a W/D/W setup? If so, are you slaving for the Dry sound? And if so, what are you using to amplify the 2 wets and 1 dry?

I agree, the 2/50/2 is just killer in a Suhr SL68 -> Suhr RL -> 2/50/2 setup.
Ok, I was running a WDW setup, and I was using a Matrix GT-800 power amp for powering the wet cabs @ 100% wet. I think that using the Matrix in this application is totally fine!

I already had a Suhr RL, so I kept going back and forth with slaving my amps into it, and sending that to my mixer/effects, and then to the Matrix SS power amp in stereo-mode. This stereo setup sounded "ok", but I kept feeling like I was missing the "thump" of the dry cab in the WDW setup. The slaved stereo setup sounded a bit "flat" compared to the dynamics you get with the WDW setup.

Then, I got together with a buddy to do some comparison testing, and I tried the same slave stereo setup again, but using a VHT 2/50/2 to power the stereo setup......and this was GREAT! I bought the VHT from him on the spot! :)

I really find the "feel" using the tube power amp is much better! I have been using this setup now for about a month, and I really don't feel like I am missing anything from the WDW setup! ;)

For you, I think that using a VHT 2502 would be a MUCH better approach than getting the newer Fryette power amp.

Cheers
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
I have heard that these are basically just two Power Stations in one rack unit with a mono bridged mode. I use a PS 1 as a power amp and I enjoy the tone quite a lot.

If you'd like to save a few hundred dollars you could look into the PS 100 from Fryette, which is new. It's just a 100 watt version of the PS 2 w/ KT66's instead of 6L6. Not sure if it's on the Fryette site yet but don't think so. This has a 100 watt power section that would likely sound different from the 6L6 based power sections.
I think the iron trannies in the 2/50/2 are larger than what is in the power station. This would contribute to a different sound. Plus different tube sets.
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
Here is some of what I have found from testing. I have tried different speakers for wet than dry and don't notice much but I use Alnico 90watt Creams for everything. My dry cab is a StoneAge 2x12C, my wet cabs are Bogner 1x12 cubes. The signal from dry amp to effects is pretty important. I have tried several different techniques but the two I liked the most are Torpedo Live or Suhr RL although these are two different approaches.

The Torpedo Live adds IRs to the signal after the effects so what the wet speakers produce is more like a Studio record where the reverb/delay is added after the fact to the recorded track. In this example using the Torpedo Live, you can adjust type and placement of microphones along with the type of speaker cab used for the sound before sending this signal on the the two wet cabs. Like a recording studio would do - record the dry track with mics and placement, then add the wet effects during the mixing process. In this example you could also use studio monitors for the playback of wet effects since they already have the speaker cab IR added by the Torpedo Live.

The Suhr RL has probably the best line-out signal you can get which represents a 4x12 cab with greenbacks. What people don't realize this device can do is by sending the dry amp signal on thru the line-out (no dry speaker cab used), you are dropping your volume by 3db, sort of a clean way to attenuate a 100watt down to a 50watt in terms of volume. You could do this running wet/dry by placing effects between the Suhr RL line-out and the Two/Fifty/Two power amp you already have. Using the Suhr RL to effects and then on to the wet amp, best represents a live sound. I actually like both of these methods and don't think one is superior to the other.

I do think your Stereo Power Amp is important which we touched on earlier. In your case with the Suhr SL-68, you could use the MV to control the volume somewhat. I know most if not all MV have a sweet spot where they work really well so find that spot and you might not need the Suhr RL to control the volume. If this is the case, then you have all the gear you need - Suhr SL-68 thru Suhr RL on to dry cab, line-out signal to wet effects and then on to Two/Fifty/Two for w/d/w.
I like to run my Suhr SL68 on the variac setting, master volume at 2 o'clock and the Volume I and II between 1 and 2 o'clock. This is pretty loud. So I won't be able to have my dry going directly to a cabinet at this volume setting. I need to instead slave the SL68 with the Suhr RL, and then re amplify with a (preferably) tube power amp, then go out to my cabinet.

If I run 100% wet in the wet cabinets, is it critical to consistently use the same power tubes in the power amps that are used for wet and dry? Or is this critical (having the same tube compliment) if I only blend some dry signal into the wet cabs?

I'm thinking I need three power amps here:

SL68 -> Suhr Line Out Thru -> Suhr RL -> MONO Tube power amp -> Dry Cab

SL68 -> Suhr Line Out -> Mono input of time based effects -> stereo L/R outs to STEREO Tube power amp (Fryette 2/50/2) -> Wet cab (L) + Wet cab (R)

I could use an effects return of an amp head for the MONO Tube power amp. Like a JCM 800 2203X, which is overkill as the preamp is unused.

I'm waiting for Musicomlab to come out with the Parallelizer to solve my parallel mix issue to achieve 100% wet effect parallelization.

What would you recommend for the MONO Tube power amp?
 
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kruts

Member
Messages
380
Ok, I was running a WDW setup, and I was using a Matrix GT-800 power amp for powering the wet cabs @ 100% wet. I think that using the Matrix in this application is totally fine!

I already had a Suhr RL, so I kept going back and forth with slaving my amps into it, and sending that to my mixer/effects, and then to the Matrix SS power amp in stereo-mode. This stereo setup sounded "ok", but I kept feeling like I was missing the "thump" of the dry cab in the WDW setup. The slaved stereo setup sounded a bit "flat" compared to the dynamics you get with the WDW setup.

Then, I got together with a buddy to do some comparison testing, and I tried the same slave stereo setup again, but using a VHT 2/50/2 to power the stereo setup......and this was GREAT! I bought the VHT from him on the spot! :)

I really find the "feel" using the tube power amp is much better! I have been using this setup now for about a month, and I really don't feel like I am missing anything from the WDW setup! ;)

For you, I think that using a VHT 2502 would be a MUCH better approach than getting the newer Fryette power amp.

Cheers
I already have a Fryette 2/50/2. I have been using this for my slave setup which has been:

Suhr SL68 -> Suhr RL -> Time based effects -> Fryette 2/50/2

I would like to continue using my 2/50/2 for a dry path in the W/D/W setup. I know I won't be using Ch 2 of the 2/50/2 in this application.

So, I thought... to achieve the Wet path in the W/D/W, why not check out the Fryette LXII?

But you are suggesting a matrix SS power amp would be fine on the Wet path?

There has been mixed opinion so far in the thread about:

1) Use tube power amps for dry and wet, and preferably the same tubes.

2) Use tube power amp for dry. Possibly use SS power amp for 100% wet.

I'm not sure if I can go with #2... in the case the SS power amp (matrix?) changes the sound mix of the wet cabs (driven by SS) and the dry cab (driven by tube).

... and I guess the other thing to consider, is I may possibly have V30s in the wet cabinets and greenbacks in the dry 4x12 cabinet. So maybe I'm already "off" the rails for consistency between the dry and wet signal paths?

More opinions are appreciated!
 

support

Member
Messages
698
In the old days of rack systems, the power amp needed to add a little color and dynamic feel because most racks used a preamp - or three - or a combination of preamps and slaved amps using resistive (not reactive) loads. Our power amps worked well because they brought the needed dynamic and tonal elements to get closer to a real amp sound.

These days, modelers have more (though certainly not all) of the tonal and dynamic ingredients and we have better loads like our Power Load, Power Station and the Suhr product to enhance the behavior of slaved amps. So now, the power amp can afford to be more neutral. Some feel that this validates SS power amps because "flat response", etc, which is not necessarily true, but that's the pitch.

Just because you have good reactive load and are using an EL34 based amp head, doesn't mean you need an EL34 power amp to somehow retain the amps original flavor. Once the amps EL34s have added their bit of spice, it doesn't make sense that an EL34 power amp is needed to preserve that, or that a 6L6 power amp somehow magically erases it. And especially that a SS power amp will somehow stay out of the way entirely.

In general, what a tube power amp in this case brings is dynamic feel, often severely lacking in SS power amps, or masked in tube power amps with heavy coloration or intentionally dragged dynamic response. The 2/50/2 delivers a very dynamic feel, which is why it works so well in this application. The LXII likewise delivers great dynamic response and can be operated as a more neutral amp sonically, or punched up to behave similarly to the 2/50/2.

I should mention that the 2/50/2 cheats a little because it's actually 65W per channel with both channels driven, comparable to the Mesa Simul Two:90 which is also good for around 65W per channel (both amps measured at 5% distortion). The LXII is 50W per channel on the nose (both channels driven), and close to 60W one channel only.

The main reason for using 6L6s in the LXII is because they tend to be more rugged mechanically, so better suited for use in this tight environment.

How is the LXII different from the Syn5050 (which yes, we also designed)? Well, there is a reason the LXII costs a little more and that mainly has to do with the build quality of transformers. Though similar in design, the LXII OTs use a particularly high quality steel grade and are precision wound with kraft insulation (as opposed to tape), which improves frequency response and tonal consistency. The LXII also has a little more dynamic responsiveness, which as stated above, is important for modelers, preamps and slaved amps. The LXII also has the remote switchable features and Line Outs on each channel. The Syn5050 gives a little more coloration and sag, which they wanted to enhance the flavor of the modules.

About the Presence and Depth trimpots, over the decades, we've seen that most users set those controls a particular way and don't change that much if ever. They're not radical tone shaping features anyway, so the idea that they need to be intensely on demand is not consistent with our long experience on the subject. Being able to set them to taste and then switch them on and off individually or simultaneously is a very useful feature, an idea also borne out in extensive user feedback and validated over 2 years or so in field testing.

Is the LXII just 2 Power Station power amps in one box? Yes and no. Both products follow the same basic topology used on all of our power amp designs, and yes there are essentially two amps on one chassis, but the toroid power transformer in the LXII is a more efficient and responsive item that the square transformers in the PS-2, PS-100, 2/50/2 and 2/90/2, so it kind of straddles both worlds. If you only use one channel of the LXII, it will be stiffer than the PS-2 as a power amp. If you run both channels in stereo, or in bridge mono, you'll have more headroom and get better power supply utilization, which will give you a better feel, but not at bedroom volume. So, which is best for you is all about application.

Hope that answers all of your questions.
 

kruts

Member
Messages
380
@support Thanks for the detailed information! Wow, and yes I totally agree on the dynamic responsiveness of a tube power amp. I totally get that.
 




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