Fuchs ODS 50 edge of breakup tone

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by ProfRhino, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    there's quite some info about these amps, but I could not find much about the topics below, care to share your opinion / experience ?

    I kinda got obsessed with the fat driven cleans / low gain lead tones in the Jim Kelley videos, unfortunately the price is a bit tough to swallow, and there's zero chance of scoring a used one in EU.
    Now I got offered a mint Fuchs ODS 50 (non HRM) for about half the money, definitely a quality amp too, but I'd have to buy blind, too far away for pick up. So now I wonder :

    - how does the clean channel feel when driven a bit, more on the compressed, bubbly side like e.g. a Two Rock Custom Reverb - or more snappy with fast attack (SRV style) ?
    - is there a gradual transition area between clean and crunch you can explore via guitar volume (and if so, in which channel ?), or is it more of an either / or dual channel affair ?
    - how are the low gain lead tones, aka singing, cleanish sustain ?

    I would be using it with a variety of more or less vintage style guitars, speakers, no pedals (maybe a light boost) and without any volume restrictions ...
    Goes without saying the three amps I mentioned are very distinct designs, I'm not expecting identical results, but there could be a certain common middle ground around the tones I mentioned, or am I totally off base here ?
    Thing is, I have BF cleans, fat crunch and vintage US higher gain covered nicely, as well as the British side of things, so it's exactly the described tones I'm after, anything left or right would be a bonus, but not essential.

    looking forward to your thoughts,
    thanks,
    Rhino
     
  2. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    This is where I live on the ODS 50.

    To get there I'm on the drive channel, have used the loop in parallel and some effects in there including an EQ boosting the mids. I also have the mids dialed fairly hi on the front panel, Jazz switch modeno boosts except for the bright switch.

    Had to get really good tubes, RCA 7025 V1, Mullard F92 V2, RCA short grey V3, GT balanced (Chinese) PI tube, Sylvania 6L6's. 2x12 cab with a G1265 and a RWB. Evidence audio speaker cable.

    Also using a volume pedal to tweak down you guitars hit on the front of the drive channel helps.

    I found that unless I'm doing clean jazz that the above approach has worked better for me than attempting to make the clean channel growl.

    With the tubes I have, clean channel is fabulous for a near SSS type of tone. So with a super versatile amp like this you have to really take your time and find your personal sweet spot. Even the internal trimmers have to be factored in.

    I also have a 2nd amp (pignose G60VR) that I run an SPX 90 thru for extra girth and a fusion sound.


    www.atozclean.com/Media/Loud_Jazz.mp3



    _____________________________________________________
     
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  3. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    Hello Greg / Carl,
    thanks for this very informative post !
    Btw, great music in your link, especially dig the interplay with brass in a few places, superb playing and perfectly matching tone !
    Personally I'm leaning more towards the brighter side of the spectrum, but I can really relate to your detailed observations, obviously the right tubes matter a lot too for expressive amps like that.
    much appreciated !
    Rhino
     
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  4. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    I have gotten my brightest tones by elevating the cab: http://www.atozclean.com/Media/Matinee.mp3

    Finally the loop eq I mentioned as well as the bright switch...

    If you still want brighter use a tungsol reissue tube in V1 (or something with similar EQ / Clarity...
     
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  5. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    unfortunately this ODS is gone, but I'll keep an eye open ...
    Your detailed tips are much appreciated (and pdf'ed for further reference), but between the lines they also tell me I really need to get some hands-on experience with such a complex amp before handing over the briefcase ...
    I have zero doubt it is a great amp, but I need to find out if it meets my specific needs.
    No need to rush things, hopefully I'll find one to try within driving distance.
    Or find a Kelley I can afford, whichever happens first.
    thanks again,
    Rhino
     
  6. PierreL

    PierreL Member

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    With my ODS 50, the clean channel stays fairly clean unless driven hard with high output pickups.
    With a Tele or Strat, no way. I usually use a pedal for those tones.
    Or maybe the lead channel with the first gain stage set fairly low, volume on guitar lowered too.
     
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  7. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    Sure no prob.

    Fuchs Blackjack and The Redplate amps, Glaswerks Zingaro, and the Kingley Bastion 40, maybe even some Mesa amps, Badcat amps, Sommatone, Divided by 13, so many great OD's out there...

    Kingsley demos sound awesome to me...
     
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  8. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    thanks guys !
    So all in all the Fuchs doesn't seem to be too different from my Ceriatone OTS in this regard, more like two distinct channels than having smooth transitions, my buddy's Two Rock is more flexible here but unholy expensive ... :omg
    I'll certainly try your tweak recommendations on my OTS, Greg - there is enough similarity in architecture that something might work for me, too.
    I listened to a lot of clips in the meantime, and among all the brands Greg mentioned (only good ones there) I actually found one that might suit me equally well as the Kelley, and that's the Redplate RP50R ...
    Goes without saying it's just as hard to find and just as pricey here in EU.
    But hey, having two options doubles the chance of actually finding one, 0 x 2 = ooops, nevermind. :D

    thanks again,
    Rhino
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  9. stratpaulguy86

    stratpaulguy86 Member

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    I'd probably hold out for the Kelley...by all accounts they are extremely special amps. A Kelley is on my very very short list of "will own someday" amps. If you are loving what you are hearing out of the Jim Kelley, I think spending big money to approximate that sound will likely end in disappointment. Andy builds fantastic sounding amps, just very different than what the Kelley amps do and vice versa.
     
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  10. stratpaulguy86

    stratpaulguy86 Member

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    FWIW, the Kelley amps remind me of a fantastic sounding big Tweed amp that doesn't flub out with just a hint of early MKI Boogie low gain/high sustain happening. Add in the boost, attenuator, and reverb and you have a really flexible setup.
     
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  11. gigs

    gigs Member

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    I have the Ceriatone OTS HRM (100W). Agree with what @Carl_Tone said. Take your time, tubes, internal trims, speakers... all make a difference with even slight changes. Took me a while to dial in the overdrive channel on my Ceriatone. The cleans were/are amazing right out of the box.
     
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  12. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    that sums up what I hear in the clips, exactly.
    ... and it's a pretty elusive quality if, like me, you don't particularly enjoy the Neil Young aspects of driven Tweeds (although I dig the man's songwriting and acoustic work a lot, to be fair).
    sounds like the way to go, I hear you well ! :aok
    thanks for the clear advice,
    Rhino
     
  13. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    true, a bit of a tricky beast, but a fine amp on its own merits for sure !
    Mine's a 50 non-HRM, C-Lator and G-Major in the loop, sounds fat !
    And I'm certainly not done tweaking it yet.
    It's not an either / or decision for me, I've mostly retired from live work and enjoy gear with character, with shameless disregard of flexibility or volume concerns ... :dude

    lol,
    Rhino
     
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  14. gigs

    gigs Member

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    yeah, the C-lator is a key component for sure.
     
  15. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    Although I've posted it again and again, I'm not sure that people get it, so one more time....


    Once your in the sonic neighborhood you want to be in, the real differences are usually EQ related.



    Put a GOOD EQ in the loop with a device that allows for a parallel signal path.

    LOOP / LOOPALATOR OUT--->Suhr Mini-Mix, Fuchs Verberator, Line Mixer, etc.-> EQ -> Effects--->LOOP IN.

    If you have the Fuchs ODS then you already have parallel built in. (most cases)

    Now use the EQ to shape the tone spectrum of WHATEVER AMP YOU WANT TO BE!!

    Apologies in advance to those who already know / do...
     
  16. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

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    ... which is exactly what I use the TC for, EQ and a little bit of delay & reverb (not a big FX guy). Sounds fine to me for what it is, adds some versatility (ain't that a bit similar to the HRM idea ?), but it obviously can't change the basic gain structure.
    I'm also using Sylvanias, GE12AX7s and an EI in the PI, but couldn't grab any RCAs so far.
    Curious - how would your RCAs compare to those (orange Fender labeled) GEs ?
    thanks,
    Rhino
     
  17. Carl_Tone

    Carl_Tone Member

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    Generally I've heard that the GE's excel at "taming highs"...

    My RCA's are pretty clear, punchy and full spectrum (especially the 7025), they play well with a more colorful European tube in the V2.


    Timbre Wolf would know in a much more specific way, why not ask him over in the Amp technical forum...he's the Mr. Wizard of Vintage Vacuum tubes...
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
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  18. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    This is how I do it with all my D-styles. For low gain crunch rhythms, it's usually an OCD into the clean channel and I reserve the OD channels for solo tones.
     
  19. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    Great advice! I have a Glaswerks SOD II and could not be more happy with it. I often consider getting another one for backup and/or for a different flavor!
     
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  20. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

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    The 50s and early 60s long-plate GE 12AX7s definitely roll off highs in a very musical way. I find that some amps really benefit from that and some don't. And, of course, it also depends on axe, PUPs, speakers, cabs, etc. I used to use them in my SOD II back when I was using the RF bright cap setting and an EVM-12L in a Glaswerks Thiele cab. But, after a long layoff from playing altogether, I came back to the amp with a fresh mind and a fresh set of ears and approached it in a completely different way.

    I disabled the RF bright cap, which left the simulated FX loop cable capacitance in effect to soften and roll off high end. I also rearranged the front panel switches and my whole approach to EQ'ing the amp. And, then, I switched from the relatively bright EVM-12L to darker Heritage G12-65s and then to Scumback M75-LDs. So, I found that the GEs were rolling off too much high end and switched to JJs, which are also a little dark, but not as much as the GEs. I also found them a little gainier and punchier than the GEs, which worked really well with all the other changes I made in the signal path.
     

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