Fuchs Train 45 ***owners***

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by PaulM, May 13, 2006.

  1. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    I don't want this to turn into a controversial thread on the obvious tangents.

    I bought one of these and I would appreciate hearing first hand knowledge, and not just conjecture, on the topic.

    I find it to be too bright and to have a somewhat harsh high end if not adjusted with the treble and presence way down. I play a tele through a pair of celestion blues. Are my speaker cab and guitar choice a complete mis-match for this amp? I find it too bright with a Les Paul as well.

    What are you guys using? And what would be the "perfect" speaker cab to pair with it and a tele?

    For context, I play a lot of blues-rock. Mountain, James Gang, et cetra
     
  2. Boomer

    Boomer Member

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    I was using mine, temporarily, with a 15" Weber California. I did not find it too bright. Bob Burt is currently building a head box and his vertical 2x12 for it and it will be loaded with G12H-30's. Since I'm a chicken, the 2x12 probably won't do much traveling so I have a Jenkins Highway 61 that I was planning on loading with one of the new Celestion Golds when they become available.

    HTH
     
  3. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    I have yet to meet a 15" speaker that was too bright. The G12H30 might be a good match for this head, though. Please post how that works out.
     
  4. Boomer

    Boomer Member

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    Hopefully, I'll have the amp and cab back in the next couple of weeks.
     
  5. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    I borrowed a 1x12 with a classic lead in it. Whole 'nuther amp. Couldn't make it too bright, even with the tele. Celestion blues don't mix well with a tele and the train 45. Gunna have to get me another cab.
     
  6. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    You beat me to it! I play mine through one of four cabs. Cab #1 is a G-Flex 2x12 with Cannabis Rex drivers, my favorite with this amp. Cab #2 is an older THD 2x12 with their Longhorns which are basically a CL80 and this is my second favorite. I usually use this cab with my Lucky 7 as my effects rig in a wet/dry setup. Cab #3 is a Zinky 2x12 with Mesa MC90's and this cab is a close third. Cab #4 is a ported 1x12 with an MC90 and really sounds great with the Train as well. I would expect the Blues to have some harsh breakup with the very powerful (for 45 watts) Train 45.

    All are somewhat dark drivers and all sound great for Classic Rock, Blues Rock and the like, IMO. I guess with the exception of the C Rex's, they're all basically the Classic Lead that you've already found to be a great match! I do tame mine with a Hotplate, but it still gives me what I want.

    Congratulations on buying a fantastic amp....a very loud amp....but a great one! Now go buy some earplugs! ;)
     
  7. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    Thank you for the feedback. I ordered a 1x12 cab today and I'm going to try a CL in there.
     
  8. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    I'm not sure where the current CL80's are being made....China, I'd guess....but if you want to do a little searching here, I know you can find some info on Mesa's Black Shadow MC90, which is supposedly an OEM CL80, but is still being made in England. These are really great speakers!...and still available from Mesa's online store for $109.

    Here's a link:

    http://store.yahoo.com/mesa/noname1.html

    Here's to the Train!...Some of Andy's best work!:dude
     
  9. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    Thank you for the info. I came into a UK G12H30 yesterday, so I bought it. We'll see how it works in there.

    I'm enjoying this amp more and more. Much higher gain than anything I've owned in the last 20+ years of playing.
     
  10. Troubleman

    Troubleman Silver Supporting Member

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    I've a Blackjack21 (similar preamp with 6L6 output section). I agree with you - with certain speakers it can be bright. I found it quite bright with a pair of Celestion G12H30's, less so with a Two Rock 2x12 with Emi Wizard and Tonespotter, and just about right with a Budda 2x12 cab running a pair of Budda Fat 12's
     
  11. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

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    It appears the question of brightness has been addressed, but I'll chime in a little as well:

    The Train-45 (like it's inspiration, the real Wrecks) has it's quirks.

    The first position preamp tube can be a source of noise, it can also be a source of crosstalk (sound leaking through when volume is at '0') as well. It's a very simple circuit, and passes a ton of musical information. Cables and speakers can react good or bad with it as well. This brings me to another quirk: It can be a bright mo-fo. Especially with a Tele and the wrong speaker !

    Good speakers are the Lead-80, Mesa Black Shadow, and the real G12H30
    (not a Wizard), which are decent matches. A V-30 will rip your skull off, especially on axis.

    In addition, the treble control is really very drastic. It's likely the most active control on the amp. It's not unusual to run the amp with it around 9.00 or lower, to not be brutally bright, especially with bright guitars.

    Like in previous threads, control position means nothing. The "proper" position, is the one where the amp sound the way YOU like it.
     
  12. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Hey Andy, are there any cables that you've found work best, (or worst), with the Train/L7? I'm using a combination of Horizon and George L's and things sound great, but I always appreciate your input.

    I find that I usually run the treble, bass and presence around 9:00, with the mids around 12:00, to get the sound I'm after. I also use a Hotplate at 8db, as I mentioned before, and keep the bright switch off, deep switch on. The EQ switch on the amp is set to flat and the switch on the rear is set to hard.

    The amp really sounds great like this, to me anyway, but I'm looking forward to hearing it with your new Conductor as soon as I can get my hands on one.

    I had my rig set up at a fill in open mic hosting last week and the jammers were drooling, lemme tell ya!
     
  13. PaulM

    PaulM Member

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    RGB's post in the L7 thread says that bias for the EL34 in the L7 should be up closer to 60ma. Should I increase the bias in the Train 45 as well? I have it running at 40ma right now... what would be the effect if I cranked it up to 47ma like Ted Weber suggests?
     
  14. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Hey Paul, it wasn't me who said it should be at 60ma. I haven't explored rebiasing yet but the manual says it's biased to 40ma at the factory. I'm sure that you'd have to do the math for an EL34 based on the plate voltage and I'm not sure what the average plate voltage is of these amps, but I believe cranking it up to 47ma would have the effect of a more compressed, smoother distortion with a little less snap, plus it will cause your power tubes to wear a bit quicker.
     
  15. cr8z4life

    cr8z4life Member

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    I dont own one but having heard it with Andy at the helm with my les paul.....I would say it sounded great.....but like trains they are bright so to me a good speaker combo would be two heritage greenbacks or a greenback and a g12h 30......just my opinion but it also fits the type of music you say you are playin
     
  16. BadAssBill

    BadAssBill southofnash.com Silver Supporting Member

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    I've played a Train 45 about 3 times, all with a V30 & G12H30. It was tonal bliss.
     
  17. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    A bump to see if Andy can clear up the bias issue for us.
     
  18. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

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    The Train 45 is to be set at 44 ma per tube, in hard mode (not sag mode).
    The Lucky-7 is set for 60 ma, which will be addressed in the other thread.
     
  19. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up, Andy. So would the setting be 40 in sag mode?
     
  20. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

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    The bias drops about 20% in sag mode, as the supply sags and acts softer. It's still AB, but less current. Always set the bias in hard mode. Sag mode bias will vary depending on the tubes and can be from 10 to 20 percent less.
     

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