Fullstack... G12M vs G12H vs G12M & H

[somedude]

I currently have a Vintage 30 and G12T-75 loaded fullstack, and although I like the tone I'm getting a little tired of it.

I've done some background research and I'm on the fence regarding three options;

Fill both cabs with G12M.

Fill both cabs with G12Hs

Fill one cab with Ms and one with Hs.

What I want is guitar tone that's big and in your face with plenty of midrange grunt, no icepick and a bottom end that's big yet not overbearing, loose, muddy or farty.

I use either Orange amps or amps that sound like Orange amps. I typically dial back the bass and treble and try to spit the thickest low midrange tone I can.

 

[SkipTracer]

Fill one cab with Ms and one with Hs.

^
This is what I would do. From what you've written, a mix of Ms and Hs should work really well for you.

By themselves, I find H30s to be lacking the lower midrange grunt that Ms have. Ms, on the other hand, don't have such a tight low end and can get muddy, in my experience. Personally, I prefer old Oranges through Ms.

If you like the M/H mix, you could also mix speakers in each cab.

 

[plexistack]

Sounds to me like you are describing Celestion Greenbacks.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

An M/H mix would be the answer, X pattern to balance the tone out of the cabinet.

The other option is an M mix with both 55 & 75hz response cones. That's really thick and chewy. I did it with some pre rola G12M's, T1511 (55hz) and T1221 (75hz) and it was all low mids to upper mids. The bass was fairly tight, but not quite as tight and defined as the M/H mix.

 

[somedude]

An M/H mix would be the answer, X pattern to balance the tone out of the cabinet.

The other option is an M mix with both 55 & 75hz response cones. That's really thick and chewy. I did it with some pre rola G12M's, T1511 (55hz) and T1221 (75hz) and it was all low mids to upper mids. The bass was fairly tight, but not quite as tight and defined as the M/H mix.

Just when I had it narrowed down to three options.... :BITCH
Just to work this out in my head, I know the lower frequency cone increases bass response/range, but does it also lower where the midrange emphasis sits?

Is Scumback is the only source of 55hz Ms?

I was kinda thinking of going with normal 75hz Ms and 55hz Hs.

 

[somedude]

^

By themselves, I find H30s to be lacking the lower midrange grunt that Ms have. Ms, on the other hand, don't have such a tight low end and can get muddy, in my experience. Personally, I prefer old Oranges through Ms.

Will Ms stay fairly tight when not being overdriven? The reason I ask is that in a fullstack each speaker will only be getting ~15w, and that assumes I have the amp's master wide open. Ms are appealing because at 96db they'll cut my overall volume. The drawback is that at 120w I won't be able to use my main amp with a single cab for fear of blowing speakers up.

 

[SkipTracer]

Will Ms stay fairly tight when not being overdriven?

In an Orange 4x12, yes. Maybe not as tight as T75s though...

The reason I ask is that in a fullstack each speaker will only be getting ~15w, and that assumes I have the amp's master wide open. Ms are appealing because at 96db they'll cut my overall volume. The drawback is that at 120w I won't be able to use my main amp with a single cab for fear of blowing speakers up.

Yeah, I would be very careful with an OR120 (I assume that's what you're using) through a single 4x12 loaded with 25 watters (=Ms). I wouldn't do that without an attenuator. If you want to stick with Celestions, G12-65 would be an option.

 

[somedude]

In an Orange 4x12, yes. Maybe not as tight as T75s though...

I find it hard to judge exactly how tight a T is as they're so scooped sounding that it always feels like they're pushing too much bottom end.

Yeah, I would be very careful with an OR120 (I assume that's what you're using)

Electric MV. Imagine an OR120 with the gain of a JCM800 and a PPIMV. You can open the MV, dial the gain back and it'll nail the tone of an early 70s graphic OR120. I have a Rockerverb 50 for when I want less power, so I suppose that I'd just have to restrict myself to the RV50 when running one cab.

 

[gulliver]

I would stay away from the 70th anna G12H30s if you don't want ice picky, I hear the Scumbacks are much less so, but never heard them myself. I have a G12M25 greeny and sold the 70th annas ... I didn't think they were a good match but did like the 70th annas and CL80s in a 4x12 mixed. I think mixing is better when speakers are close in tone.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Just when I had it narrowed down to three options.... :BITCH

Sorry!

Just to work this out in my head, I know the lower frequency cone increases bass response/range, but does it also lower where the midrange emphasis sits?

Yes. The 55hz M kicks in at a lower frequency and delvers more in the low/low mids area than the 75hz M. It also doesn't have quite as much treble as the M75, but that thickens up the treble, too.

Is Scumback is the only source of 55hz Ms?

As far as I know.

I was kinda thinking of going with normal 75hz Ms and 55hz Hs.

The H55/M75 mix will also work, I've had clients do that, too. The H55 will really tighten up the bass/low mids w/creamy treble, too. The M75 will enhance the whole midrange and low mids, of course, so that mixed with the H55 might be your best choice IF you've got a single coil guitar. With buckers, I think it's going to be a little too thick, and I'd recommend an H75/M75 mix.

Really need to go over your whole rig to make a recommendation, though. If you're up for that, email me. No use burning up the TGP bandwidth. Fair enough?

 

[gulliver]

The H55/M75 mix will also work?

Just curious as to why you would recommend the above rather than the M75 mixed with an H75 with oversized dust cover? What would the difference be?

 

[somedude]

As far as I know.

Did you change your username? Here I was kinda hoping Scumback would drop into this email and he was already here....

Really need to go over your whole rig to make a recommendation, though. If you're up for that, email me. No use burning up the TGP bandwidth. Fair enough?

I'm at work right now, but I'll drop a line later today. It might be a few months before I'm ready to go... reloading two full cabs isn't going to be cheap.

 

[Roe]

Southbay Ampworks=Scumback=Jim

 

[steelvalley]

The best tone I ever get from my amps is when I full stack my two cabs. One's loaded with Celestion Greenbacks, the other with an H55/75 mix of scumbacks. It does exactly what your looking for. Perfectly complementary. Standalone, I'm not wild about my Greenback cab - it does get a little flubby, but when stacked with the other cab, the bass becomes tight, and strong. The H55/75 straight cab by itself sounds fantastic with my Splawn, which is midrangey and on the brighter side, but can get boomy with my Plexi-ish amp. But when stacked with the Greenbacks, no boominess at all, just killer tone! I was wondering if anyone was full-stacking these days

 

[somedude]

I was wondering if anyone was full-stacking these days

Fullstacks seem to be few and far between. Personally, I don't care if it looks pretentious... I like the sound.

The more I think about it (and unless someone can convince me otherwise) the more I'm starting to shy away from 55hz cones. Both my cabs are Orange types... they already have a deep bass response and the wicker grille cloth seems to roll off some top end. The V30/G12T mix I'm using now already pushes too much bottom end relative to the amount of midrange present.

 

[amp boy]

as someone once said to me.......all those great players played through what they could, did they mix speakers ??.....cabs ??
i get a good vibe from the word Jim speaks on.
I also think closed back = more bass response.....so h75's should work well in that, complimenting the cabs bass with it's own, but also balancing with it's top end.
i would say for the fun of saying.....H's and M's in one cab and Scumnicos in the other.
play'em separate or together.
where's 909SP....he's given me good word in the past !!!!

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Just curious as to why you would recommend the above rather than the M75 mixed with an H75 with oversized dust cover? What would the difference be?

A bit more bass, and bit more treble. The LHDC speaker has less high end than the small dust cap H55. It's sort of in between the H75 and the H55 for low end, but has a softer treble response, good for high gain, Dumble tones and single coils.

Did you change your username? Here I was kinda hoping Scumback would drop into this email and he was already here....

Uh, I'm one in the same guy. Note my avatar, Southbay on top, Scumback underneath it? You don't have avatars turned on, I'm guessing?

I'm at work right now, but I'll drop a line later today. It might be a few months before I'm ready to go... reloading two full cabs isn't going to be cheap.

I have a deal for those who order quads that I don't advertise, shoot me an email about it when you can.

 

[somedude]

Uh, I'm one in the same guy. Note my avatar, Southbay on top, Scumback underneath it? You don't have avatars turned on, I'm guessing?

Just inattentive. I didn't clue in until I read your signature, which was after I asked you if any of your competitors carried 55hz Ms. I felt it was a little rude of me ...

Either way, I'll be shooting you a line shortly. Just need to type it up.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Oh that's alright. Someone called me up the other day to order a Celestion Gold and a G12H30. Now that's rude!

After I answered all of his questions, he was ready to place an order, then I told him to call Avatar.

See, I don't keep those guys from making sales. I'm not vindictive like that. Besides, he'll be back later. He never got that much information and customer service out of his GC, local music store or other online speaker websites, so we hit it off pretty well.

Of course, he was embarrassed as s**t when he found out he called the wrong # to order a Celestion...

(BTW, this does not mean I will answer questions about Eminence, WGS and Austin Speakerworks, folks!)