G12-65 Reissues - I don't get all of the hoopla?

hardys

Member
Messages
1,738
I've been comparing a G12-65 reissue with about 3 hours on it, to a G12H 70th Anniv. with about 30 hours on it. While there are some differences, they are similar sounding overall....definately not to the extremes as a G12H/V30 comparison. I had a few friends & players with good ears comment that they are similar sounding as well. Opinions for the best sounding between the two were 60/40 in favor of the G12-65.

I've been reading raves about the G12-65 on this forum, but for the price of these things, I frankly don't get it. The highs are just SLIGHTLY less bright than the G12H, a bit more fuller mids, and a bit less bass. There isn't any more complexity or richness either. I thought there would be a tonal revelation, but so far, given the price tag, I'm only moderately impressed.

Anybody else feel this way? Do these get any better after breaking in? If so, how long IS break in?
 

bosstone

Member
Messages
3,395
No speaker sounds as good as it is going to get without being broken in. Check back in after 20 to 30 hours of serious playing. They are great speakers.
 

1973Marshall

Member
Messages
6,904
I don't think I would agree BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID.

They ARE overhyped. The nostalgia of Randy Rhodes and Robben Ford takes over this board a lot, as well as the "flavor of the month". I have owned 3 in the past year and kept one. Frankly, I think the Greenback is a much better speaker, but these do live up to the midrange-y, warm, and crunchy tones that we love from the aforementioned, in the vein of a higher powered GB.

I think they will smooth out a bit, but by your description - the "larger" sound of the G12H, coupled with the "balance" in the mids, and extended highs and lows seem to please you. The 65 will NEVER give you that.

If you own a Fuchs, 2Rock, or D*** clone, as well as wanting the aforementioned tones out of Twins or Marshalls, you might consider the 65.

The V30/G12H30 combo is pretty darn amazing though!
 

rockon1

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
13,679
I agree they are a bit hyped. On thier own they are too mid heavy for my tastes. I dont think they sound anything like a G12H-30 though. Kind of the opposite. I do find they mix very nicely with the G12H-30 for that reason. One of my favorite speaker combinations. Bob
 

hardys

Member
Messages
1,738
I agree they are a bit hyped. On thier own they are too mid heavy for my tastes. I dont think they sound anything like a G12H-30 though. Kind of the opposite. I do find they mix very nicely with the G12H-30 for that reason. One of my favorite speaker combinations. Bob

Doesn't the G12-65 get overpowered? 100 db vs 97 db? Also, I'd like to try that combination, but my G12-65 is 16 Ohms and my G12H is 8 Ohms. What would be the impedance of these values combined?
 

Rod

Tone is Paramount
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
24,419
No speaker sounds as good as it is going to get without being broken in. Check back in after 20 to 30 hours of serious playing. They are great speakers.
Bosstone is right.....The speaker isn't broken in yet....And as far as the other guy saying it's the flavor of the month...Robben Ford whatever..that's crap...many of us have been using 65's for years....I bought the new reissues because my old ones became very tired sounding...That being said, they are similar in sound to the original Celestion 70's...same cone and large voice coil cover I believe....
 

hardys

Member
Messages
1,738
Bosstone is right.....The speaker isn't broken in yet....And as far as the other guy saying it's the flavor of the month...Robben Ford whatever..that's crap...many of us have been using 65's for years....I bought the new reissues because my old ones became very tired sounding...That being said, they are similar in sound to the original Celestion 70's...same cone and large voice coil cover I believe....


What tonal changes can I expect after putting 20 or 30 hours on them?
 

Tag

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
44,528
I have 2 vintage ones and do not care for them at all. Give me brand new G12H30s any day of the week.
 

rockon1

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
13,679
Doesn't the G12-65 get overpowered? 100 db vs 97 db? Also, I'd like to try that combination, but my G12-65 is 16 Ohms and my G12H is 8 Ohms. What would be the impedance of these values combined?


You might think so but the G12-65 is so mid voiced it blends very well with the higher powered G12H-30. 8 ohm +16 ohm = 5.33 ohms. It would be better if the G12-65 was 8 ohm and the G12H-30 was 16 ohm. Then the G12-65 would get more power rather than less power. In your case where the G12-65 is 16 ohm it might get overpowered by the G12H-30 because of this. Hopefully you will get the idea though.Its my favorite combo so far! Bob
 

Red Suede

Member
Messages
2,829
Depends on what you're looking for. I use mine (old ones) with a 100/50 watt Opal, japanese Fender RF in a 2-12" oval ported Two Rock cabinet wired reverse phased, so you know what I was shooting for. The tone balance created by all these components is quite nice, very Robbenesque to my ear.
 

Axeplyr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
2,180
I've been comparing a G12-65 reissue with about 3 hours on it, to a G12H 70th Anniv. with about 30 hours on it. While there are some differences, they are similar sounding overall....definately not to the extremes as a G12H/V30 comparison. I had a few friends & players with good ears comment that they are similar sounding as well. Opinions for the best sounding between the two were 60/40 in favor of the G12-65.

I've been reading raves about the G12-65 on this forum, but for the price of these things, I frankly don't get it. The highs are just SLIGHTLY less bright than the G12H, a bit more fuller mids, and a bit less bass. There isn't any more complexity or richness either. I thought there would be a tonal revelation, but so far, given the price tag, I'm only moderately impressed.

Anybody else feel this way? Do these get any better after breaking in? If so, how long IS break in?

I own four originals in an '82 4x12 cab, and agree wholeheartedly. I bought this cab because it is a date-correct match to my JCM800 2204, because of the hype surrounding these speakers, and because at $450 was too good a deal to pass up.

Having owned them for 12 weeks now, I am somewhat confused as to the hype. I had a VERY well-broken in 1960AV cab with V30's, the speaker everyone loves to hate. IMHO, that cab SMOKES this one.

What don't I like about this '82 G12-65 cab? No chime, subdued crunch, bland dynamics/touch response. The speakers are in a sense neutered with no character. They are slightly similar to the 1960AX cab I had in that the mid frequency response is familiar, and yes they are not as "sizzly" as the greenback cab was. But I find that this cab is either too dark with a blanketed tone, or if I try to compensate, too bright and thin.

The sad part is I bought it just before shipping off to Australia on a job reassignment. I shipped the '82 cab with me and mothballed the V30 cab!!! And now I can't stand it - wish I had the V30 cab with me. :messedup

IMHO, these speakers are a fairly poor match for Marshalls. Maybe this is why they originally only lasted about 5 years on Celestion's assembly line going into Marshall cabs? They may be well-suited to the Dumble thing though.
 

Dave_C

Member
Messages
14,095
I've been comparing a G12-65 reissue with about 3 hours on it, to a G12H 70th Anniv. with about 30 hours on it. While there are some differences, they are similar sounding overall....definately not to the extremes as a G12H/V30 comparison. I had a few friends & players with good ears comment that they are similar sounding as well. Opinions for the best sounding between the two were 60/40 in favor of the G12-65.

I've been reading raves about the G12-65 on this forum, but for the price of these things, I frankly don't get it. The highs are just SLIGHTLY less bright than the G12H, a bit more fuller mids, and a bit less bass. There isn't any more complexity or richness either. I thought there would be a tonal revelation, but so far, given the price tag, I'm only moderately impressed.

Anybody else feel this way? Do these get any better after breaking in? If so, how long IS break in?

Your G12-65s are not broken in yet. They need very high wattage for several hours to get there. I did that artificially with mine with a loop (and also with my British G12H-30s when I first got them). And, both pairs have many loud gigs on them too. After all that, these two speakers are worlds apart. The G12H-30s are brighter, grittier, fizzier, thinner, crunchier and have a big hole in the mids, compared to the G12-65s. The G12-65s have a much fuller, thicker, smoother tone. I don't know how anyone can say they're remotely similar. It could also be your amp and/or cab too, I suppose.
 

RC2

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,125
Your G12-65s are not broken in yet. They need very high wattage for several hours to get there. I did that artificially with mine with a loop (and also with my British G12H-30s when I first got them). And, both pairs have many loud gigs on them too. After all that, these two speakers are worlds apart. The G12H-30s are brighter, grittier, fizzier, thinner, crunchier and have a big hole in the mids, compared to the G12-65s. The G12-65s have a much fuller, thicker, smoother tone. I don't know how anyone can say they're remotely similar. It could also be your amp and/or cab too, I suppose.

This was my exact same finding also.
 

1973Marshall

Member
Messages
6,904
I had to add that based on what the original poster stated, you should try the Scumback H75-LHDC model speaker. I think it will give you the goods you like in your G12H30 and possibly add some of that midrange goodness and crunch the G12-65's are known for.

The H75-LHDC is definitely a speaker is definitely UNDERhyped.
 

rockon1

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
13,679
I had to add that based on what the original poster stated, you should try the Scumback H75-LHDC model speaker. I think it will give you the goods you like in your G12H30 and possibly add some of that midrange goodness and crunch the G12-65's are known for.

The H75-LHDC is definitely a speaker is definitely UNDERhyped.

Interesting, I think my ideal speaker would sound like a mix of the G12H-30 and G12-65. I may have to try the H75LHDC. Bob
 

bosstone

Member
Messages
3,395
Not everyone loves the same speaker. No one speaker sounds good with every cabinet/amp combination. If you think you have given the speaker a fair evaluation and have head what it is capable of without taking the time to break it in, you are making a big mistake. If after the break in you still don't like it, I am sure you will find a lot of buyers out there to take it off your hands.
 

bosstone

Member
Messages
3,395
I own four originals in an '82 4x12 cab, and agree wholeheartedly. I bought this cab because it is a date-correct match to my JCM800 2204, because of the hype surrounding these speakers, and because at $450 was too good a deal to pass up.

Having owned them for 12 weeks now, I am somewhat confused as to the hype. I had a VERY well-broken in 1960AV cab with V30's, the speaker everyone loves to hate. IMHO, that cab SMOKES this one.

What don't I like about this '82 G12-65 cab? No chime, subdued crunch, bland dynamics/touch response. The speakers are in a sense neutered with no character. They are slightly similar to the 1960AX cab I had in that the mid frequency response is familiar, and yes they are not as "sizzly" as the greenback cab was. But I find that this cab is either too dark with a blanketed tone, or if I try to compensate, too bright and thin.

The sad part is I bought it just before shipping off to Australia on a job reassignment. I shipped the '82 cab with me and mothballed the V30 cab!!! And now I can't stand it - wish I had the V30 cab with me. :messedup

IMHO, these speakers are a fairly poor match for Marshalls. Maybe this is why they originally only lasted about 5 years on Celestion's assembly line going into Marshall cabs? They may be well-suited to the Dumble thing though.

I am guessing you got the ones with the bass cones. You want the ones with the 1777 cones.
 

Guitar Dave T

Member
Messages
11,266
Back to the OP, isn't the G12-65 a 60 watt speaker, where the G12H is 30?

I personally love the G12H30, but if I was looking for a 1-12 speaker for a 40-50 watt amp, the G12-65 would probably better fit the bill.

For 2-12's I'd go for a couple G12H30's, or a G12H30 and a V30, which is what I use sometimes with a 40 watt amp.
 

rockon1

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
13,679
I personally love the G12H30, but if I was looking for a 1-12 speaker for a 40-50 watt amp, the G12-65 would probably better fit the bill.

I too really like the sound of the G12H-30 with most of my amps. I bought a couple G12-65's looking for a 1x12 speaker for my higher powered amps/combo's.Being that they a tonally so far apart I was somewhat dissapointed. It wasnt the speakers fault just my expectations of it. Then I discovered they were so tonally different they complimented eachother nicely when mixed. Bob
 




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