G12-65 vs. G12M-65 vs. G12H-75

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by idnotbe, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. idnotbe

    idnotbe Supporting Member

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    does anyone briefly explain me the differences between...??

    - Celestion G12-65
    - Celestion G12M-65 (Creamback)
    - Celestion G12H-75

    i visited Celestion website.
    but cannot imagine what are the characteristics with their explanations and the frequency response graphs.

    i have a two rock sensor 22 head and a cap with 2*Celestion G12-65.
    i cannot get the tone like my reference video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr90jeheFDQ
    in the reference video, they used G12M-65.
     
  2. ekkybedmond

    ekkybedmond Member

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    Man, is that bad playing :dunno

    apart form that: Cream 65 is brighter than G12-65.

    G12H is the brightest
     
  3. riffmeister

    riffmeister Gold Supporting Member

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    I've had the Heritage G12-65 and G12M-65 Creamback in the same 2x12 open back cab, each speaker with its own input so I could A-B with a 50 watt Fender inspired amp. My preference was for the G12-65: tighter more defined bass and a bit less high frequency content.
     
  4. mikeller

    mikeller Member

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    Interested in upgrading the speaker in my DLS40C - its a bright amp. So if I understand this:

    G12-65 (least bright)
    G12M-65 Creamback (brighter than above)
    G12H - (brightest)

    ????

    I know a lot of DSL40 players like the G12M-65 Creamback.
     
  5. broken_sound

    broken_sound Silver Supporting Member

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    Couldn't have said it better.

    To also compare the 75 to these models, you'll notice more smoothed out frequencies, fairly neutral, slight amount of boosted mids but not much. A little less pow and wow.
     
  6. ekkybedmond

    ekkybedmond Member

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    Just realised:

    Being able to give an opinion on all three, means I've owned, tried and sold /returned them all.

    Ouch
     
  7. riffmeister

    riffmeister Gold Supporting Member

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    Yep. With the larger magnet, the H is probably also a bit more efficient than the other two M magnet speakers.
     
  8. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    I was just about to ask some questions on this subject and for the same reasons. That dsl40 can be a fizzy beast. I put a scumback m75 in it and the fizz got worse. Great mids, but lots of fizz. I hear this in all greenback style speakers, so for me they are not a good match for the DSL.

    The h75 actually sounded better IMO. The H's are slightly brighter but also have way more bottom than the M's to offset it.

    The vintage 30 actually sounds very good in the DSL. It rolls off highs and isn't too bottom heavy. Really a pretty good match.

    But what's glaringly missing from the DSL is the rich mids of older Marshall's. So I am very curious about the 12-65 or the scumback m75-LD. Does this speaker really roll off enough high end to quell the fizzy tendencies of the DSL (and the regular G12M) and still give those gorgeous rich mids?? Is is significantly different than the g12m style to warrant trying it in the DSL knowing how badly the M sounded? I'll probably have to try one to answer that question but any experienced input is appreciated.
     
  9. mikeller

    mikeller Member

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    I have an extra Vintage 30 16ohm - maybe I should try it. I have heard mixed likes and dislikes from players that have tried it.

    So aside from less high's - what is the difference in a G12-65 and a G12M-65
     
  10. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    You'll appreciate the v30 more live than bedroom. So give it a try there. The 12-65 is one speaker I have never knowingly compared. Scumback says that his m75-LD sounds like a 12-65. So it might be worth trying one of those. They come in a 100w version from scumback which would be a comforting security in the DSL. The LD stands for large dustcap. So I'm wondering if that's enough to quell the DSL fizz factor. That amp can really get fizzy live so that dustcap would really have its work cut out for it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  11. mikeller

    mikeller Member

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    Yeah - the DSL sounds great in the bedroom. First time I took it out I was less than overwhelmed. I did some tweaks and logged some more hours on the speaker and took it out again last weekend. My bandmates and myself thought it sounded great from stage, our sound partner thought it was better than before but noted it was a bit grainy (?)

    That is why I am thinking a speaker change. I don't know much about various speakers - did some research and the Creamback G12M-65 seems to get good reviews in that amp.
     
  12. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    I've heard those reviews too but I'm wondering if they were bedroom or stage? I know well what your sound guy means by grainy. The DSL has a very peculiar mid range texture. I've wrestled with this amp for more than a year now. The vintage 30 has stayed in the longest. I reduced the red gain bright cap to 100 pf but now as a rule I just stay off of the red channel. Weird amp. It's very useful and works well in lots of situations. But I really have to work hard to get a tone I love from it. It's really picky about pedals. The wrong pedal can amplify the fizz 10 fold. Not pretty. I sold some good pedals before I realized it was the amp and speaker not the pedal. I might try a 12-65 in it, but I'm a bit leery. If a 12-65 is an M style speaker with a big dustcap, I don't know if that will be enough. That v30 can lop off a lot of high end and the wrong pedal still brings back the fizz.
     
  13. mikeller

    mikeller Member

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    Yeah - its a great amp for the money, but, coming from using Mesa's for the past 7-8 years found that fizz tough to handle. I wanted a combo amp for some gigs and nothing that weights as much as most Mesa's. I really enjoy the DSL40 at home.

    I have the treble at around 3 (9:00 oclock), the mid and bass between 6 & 7 (that is 2-3 oclock, the presence around 3 and resonance around 7 if my memory serves me. I tried running the gain in the red channel low, then found it smoother cranked way up.
     
  14. mikeller

    mikeller Member

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    Meant to add - mine seems to like my dirt pedals just fine. I use a Barber Gain Changer and a Suhr Riot.
     
  15. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    To get rid of the fizz I would try a WGS ET65. The G1265 is very dark and gets darker the more you play it. If you only play dirty the G1265 might work but if you ever play clean you will not like it. The G12M 65 has lots of mids and bright. The G12H 75 is scoooed in the mids and more low end. The 75 sounds great clean but sounds realy bad dirty.

    I recently got the M65 and I'm going to sell it and get the ET65. The M might sound good a couple years from now but right now its too bright for me.
     
  16. Paul Bateman

    Paul Bateman Member

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    The dsl problems might be easier solved with an external cab. If all your speaker choices turn out to be fizzy then it might be that the dsl combo cab is too weak to deal with the vibration.

    What ply is the dsl cab made with?? You really want heavy 18mil ply.

    This theory seems quite plausible seeing that you like the tone at lower volume.
     
  17. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    My settings are similar. I keep the presence and resonance almost off though. The reason the amp sounds smoother with the gain up is because of that bright cap. It has less influence the higher you turn the gain. Of course before it hits a tonal sweet spot you may have way more gain than you need. Especially live.

    I don't think the cabinet is the problem. And mine doesn't seem to rattle. The amp sounds pretty good at low volume or high volume. The problem is that the tonal signature of the amp is such that when you mix in the other instruments in a band, a lot of that good disappears, and the fizz you didn't even notice was there when you were playing by yourself is all that remains to cut through. Changing a speaker will probably only get me so far. I could stay with the v30 and be happy, but that defies my nature. I love to change things. Hopefully for the better, though historically my results have varied. :)

    But for the money the DSL is a great amp. Mostly because however you think it sounds, good or bad, it can sound that way (or acceptably so at least) at darn near every volume. It's a great practice amp, recording amp, and barroom amp. That's asking a lot from a $600 amp. And it does it sounding pretty good. Not great, but pretty darn good.
     
  18. idnotbe

    idnotbe Supporting Member

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    now i clearly understand the characteristics of the 3 speakers.
    thanks all~!!

    btw, if i compare V30 to G12M-65 and G12H-75, what's the characteristic?
    is V30 similar to G12H-75?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  19. sstweed

    sstweed Supporting Member

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    You'll find three completely different speakers. And I would even throw in the classic lead 80. It did pretty well in the DSL also. It's a little brighter than the v30. I'd say with the 12-65, g12m, G12h, 12-80, and the v30 you could make just about any amp happy in the rock world. The 12-65 is the only one I haven't tried in my dsl40. Swap them in, make a fast recording ( even on just an iPhone) then swap in the next speaker and repeat. The ability to here those videos back to back really accentuates the differences.
     
  20. riffmeister

    riffmeister Gold Supporting Member

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    I have had the Celestion Heritage G12-65 and Scumback M75-LD together in a 2x12 closed back cabinet with separate inputs for each speaker so I could A-B with my 50W BF Fender inspired amp. The G12-65 has had LOTS of play time at loud volumes so I know it is well broken-in. The Scumback had the factory break-in but not much play time, only one gig. The G12-65 definitely has a more rolled off high end than the Scumback and therefore tames the fizz a bit better. I also had the G12-65 paired with a Greenback and did the same A-B testing. The Greenback has a lot less bass response and a somewhat brighter top end. The Greenback definitely has most of its output in the "guitar frequency range" which is probably why it has been so popular over the years. The G12-65 is a great sounding speaker when played at volume, it has tamed the "ice pick" issues I've had with my guitars and amps when out playing clubs. At lower volumes i could imagine some folks thinking it sounds a bit dull, but at higher volumes I personally think it is a great speaker.
     

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