General questions about Dumble, Two-Rock, Fuchs, and Bludotone...

[bgl]

I've seen these amps mentioned together more than once, for instance in the thread on Santana's gear, and it's got me wondering about the history of these companies. A few questions:
1) Are the other amps mentioned here primarily Dumble-based in their designs?
2) What exactly IS the sonic signature of Dumble amps? Just looking for a generalization there. What are they known for tone-wise?
3) How do the other companies listed above differ from the Dumble "template"? Again, looking for generalities...

Thanks in advance...

 

[amc]

the search button can be helpful
this subject has been discussed more than once on this board........

 

[Powderfinger]

 

[sameoldblues]

Fuchs and especially Bludotone are more straight-ahead Dumble clones. Two-Rock never made a "clone" per se (i.e., they never precisely copied the circuit), but the goal of "Dumble tone" was the same in their earliest amps. Now they're doing their own thing building of that platform. Dumble amps were one of any number of cascading gain circuits built into Fender amps that came about in the 1970s when amp techs like Dumble and Randall Smith started chasing the "blackface Fender and hot-rodded Marshall in one box." Dumbles tend to be pretty stiff-feeling/compressed in the cleans, nowhere near as bouncy as a Fender, but have stronger midrange and generally sweeter highs that sit well in a mix. The overdrive is compressed with a bit of sag and is very touch-responsive, but, like blackface amps, they generally tend to clean up poorly with the volume control on your guitar.

 

[LVC]

Lot of d-style amp makers --- very few actual clone makers, and even less that make historical reproductions based on specific amps and circuits.

Most builders put their own spin on the amps. Like anything else folks usually fall into a variety of builder camps depending on the sonic qualities of the d-style amps. some folks like one builder's spin/flavor more than another -- (fuchs, Two-rock etc). You can typically buy these builders' products at a store and most use production techniques that assure that every amp is pretty consistent in tonality (their flavor or spin if you will)

The dumble purists seem to gravitate to a couple of builders, Bludotone and Glasweks come to mind. These are custom built amps (like HAD did) and each one is specifically designed and voiced to the particular end user (again like HAD did). all the amps (with same circuit) might share some tonal qualities -- but all will be different and unique (like real dumbles --- every amp has some unique characteristics).

some of these builders (Bludotone comes to mind), build historically accurate circuits and in some case will even source NOS parts (Brandon did so with the latest build he did for me).

Tones and responsiveness vary from circuit to circuit, and custom tweak to custom tweak ... my amps for example ... clean up beautifully in the OD channel. I have an 80's circuit Bludotone with an overdrive voicing that has a trombone quality to it, and I have a 90's HRM bludotone amp that has an OD with a more aggressive tone and attitude (it too cleans up beautifully).

Lots of options and terrific builders out there .... great time to be a guitar playing tone hound.

 

[Tag]

I have a Dumble that sounds ok to me I guess.

There are a lot of builders out there that give you variations on the tone, look, features and styles of Dumbles. I have been on a long search of what sounds as good as a real one, and from all I have tried, (TwoRocks, Glawerks, Fuchs, Bludos, Quinns, Brownnotes, Brunos, Carol Anns) nothing can match a good Dumble. If you want what "I" have found to be the closest to a real Dumble tonally, at this point, its the TwoRock (K&M) Custom. The type 3s and old Emerald Pros are very close as well. Here is my Dumble A/Bd with one of my old Emerald Pros, and see what you think. The Custom is even closer. They are all great amps and give you different shades of a real Dumble however.


Dumble stage volume







Dumble E.Pro comparison:

 

[bgl]

This is exactly what I was wondering about. A lot of what I've read over the years regarding Dumbles has more to do with questions along the lines of "are they REALLY that good and/or worth the money?" I'm really only familiar with the voice of a Dumble via "Texas Flood" (that was a Dumble, right?). Good info, thanks again...

 

[Tag]

This is exactly what I was wondering about. A lot of what I've read over the years regarding Dumbles has more to do with questions along the lines of "are they REALLY that good and/or worth the money?" I'm really only familiar with the voice of a Dumble via "Texas Flood" (that was a Dumble, right?). Good info, thanks again...

Yes. Top clip is all the Dumble. The second clip is the TwoRock Emerald Pro and the Dumble. The tones are very close, and as I said, the K&M Custom is the closest I have found. TwoRocks new amps are fantastic but are more a TwoRock/Dumble mix at this point. Thats not a bad thing, as their Type 1 and Type 3 are sensational amps, and the 3 has clean tones that suprass the Dumbles. I have not played the new J2, but have heard thats fantastic as well. I have a new Fuchs modded from a Music Man amp, and its giving me tones that are right in there as well. For the money, I cant think of anything thats even close, although I have not actually played a Ceriatone.

 

[LVC]

... I'm really only familiar with the voice of a Dumble via "Texas Flood" (that was a Dumble, right?). Good info, thanks again...

Yes --- but that is an SSS style dumble --- again another circuit, another sound/tone.

Larry Carlton -- Different circuit/tweaks -- Different tone
Robben Ford -- Different circuit/tweaks -- Different tone
Carlos Santana -- Different circuit/tweaks -- Different tone
David Lindley -- Different circuit/tweaks -- Different tone

etc etc etc

They are all different, sound different and were designed to meet the needs of the players who ordered them.

 

[Timmo]

Fuchs and especially Bludotone are more straight-ahead Dumble clones. Two-Rock never made a "clone" per se (i.e., they never precisely copied the circuit), but the goal of "Dumble tone" was the same in their earliest amps. Now they're doing their own thing building of that platform. Dumble amps were one of any number of cascading gain circuits built into Fender amps that came about in the 1970s when amp techs like Dumble and Randall Smith started chasing the "blackface Fender and hot-rodded Marshall in one box." Dumbles tend to be pretty stiff-feeling/compressed in the cleans, nowhere near as bouncy as a Fender, but have stronger midrange and generally sweeter highs that sit well in a mix. The overdrive is compressed with a bit of sag and is very touch-responsive, but, like blackface amps, they generally tend to clean up poorly with the volume control on your guitar.

Yup !


Your last comment has been so true with my experiences.........

 

[Tag]

The overdrive is compressed with a bit of sag and is very touch-responsive, but, like blackface amps, they generally tend to clean up poorly with the volume control on your guitar.

Yup !


Your last comment has been so true with my experiences.........

Black face amps cleaning up poorly?

At Ultrasound we did a specific test with a Trainwreck Express, Komet 60 watt, Bogner Shiva, TwoRock Opal and E.Pro, Dumble overdrive special a Dr Z of some sort and Peavy Classic 50. We cranked the amps up, and dialed back on the guitars volume to see if the Trainwreck actually cleaned up as good as some people claim. What we found, was all the amps were extremely similar. What matters is the amount of gain that is dialed in, or the amp naturally has if its a Non MV amp. The amp with the least amount of gain, almost always cleaned up the nicest. There was no amp that did it better than any other. The guitar and pups make a bigger difference, especially in the amount of high end loss you achieve.

 

[Kappy]

Tag, when did you get a Dumble? That's cool. Congrats! It sounds amazing. What speakers are you playing it through in those vid clips?

 

[Timmo]

Black face amps cleaning up poorly?

At Ultrasound we did a specific test with a Trainwreck Express, Komet 60 watt, Bogner Shiva, TwoRock Opal and E.Pro, Dumble overdrive special a Dr Z of some sort and Peavy Classic 50. We cranked the amps up, and dialed back on the guitars volume to see if the Trainwreck actually cleaned up as good as some people claim. What we found, was all the amps were extremely similar. What matters is the amount of gain that is dialed in, or the amp naturally has if its a Non MV amp. The amp with the least amount of gain, almost always cleaned up the nicest. There was no amp that did it better than any other. The guitar and pups make a bigger difference, especially in the amount of high end loss you achieve.

I was commenting mainly on D style amps not cleaning up as well as say Trainwreck type amps. I still feel that this is true.

I'll agree that SOME blackface amps do it well.

I also KNOW pickups play a big part of this as well........

 

[Tag]

Tag, when did you get a Dumble? That's cool. Congrats! It sounds amazing. What speakers are you playing it through in those vid clips?

THANKS!!

I got it this past August. Those are G12H30s. What a tone!!

 

[Tag]

I was commenting mainly on D style amps not cleaning up as well as say Trainwreck type amps. I still feel that this is true.

I'll agree that SOME blackface amps do it well.

I also KNOW pickups play a big part of this as well........

No problems here!

 

[sameoldblues]

Most amps clean up alright when you lower your guitar volume knob...not all of them do so without a tone-crippling loss of definition and high end, and a substantial, disproportionate drop in volume. I'm just more accustomed to tweed/Marshall designs that go from rock overdrive to swirly, crystal cleans with a few clicks on the guitar vol control. Wrecks and Plexis do it beautifully. Dumbleish amps don't do it as well because, as channel switchers, they don't need to. Just personal experience talking.

 

[Tag]

Dumbleish amps don't do it as well because, as channel switchers, they don't need to. Just personal experience talking.

We have different findings which is fine. Channel switcher or not, I found it was the amount of gain that was dialed in. Channel switching had nothing to do with it. The lower the gain, the better it cleand up. Trainwrecks have no where NEAR the amount of gain of a Dumble, so to make an apples to apples comparison, you have to dial in an aprox. equal amount of gain on the Dumble. (since you have no option on the Trainwreck.) Once you do this, my finding was whether it be the PV classic 30, Tworock, Dumble, Trainwreck or whatever, all things wre about equal. Once you dial in double the gain on one amp (regardless of what it is) and compare it to one with 1/2 the gain, of course it is not going to clean up as well.

 

[mykljpao]

Tag! That youtube clip of your Dumble at stage vol is astounding. Finally I'm hearing the magic that you've been talking about, lol. A lot of your earlier clips of the D just didn't seem to justify the outlay but this one is just magic to my ears at least, lol. Congrats and play it in good health. Which guitar were you using and what was the source of the verb ?

 

[Tag]

Tag! That youtube clip of your Dumble at stage vol is astounding. Finally I'm hearing the magic that you've been talking about, lol. A lot of your earlier clips of the D just didn't seem to justify the outlay but this one is just magic to my ears at least, lol. Congrats and play it in good health. Which guitar were you using and what was the source of the verb ?

Thanks! Whats cool is it sounds like that all the way to talking levels and lower! The verb was just a trex Roomate in the loop and the natural room verb as well. It was REALLY, REALLY loud. A 100 watter into a 4/12 at just below clipping levels in a 18x12 room! I had foam earplugs in, and my right ear still hurt. I was squinting while I played.

 

[Dave_C]

Yup !


Your last comment has been so true with my experiences.........

You need to play my Fuchs HRM then. Cleans up beautifully from the guit knob. The non-HRM circuits I think are even a little better at that...if that's your thing.