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George Benson method, Peter Farrell

fenderlead

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And if you listen with ears than brain it eyes that won't matter much, will it?
I think it can, because it can create a different flow into other ideas.

Most of the early Bebop guitarists were copying Sax lines but it tended to come out differently to sax phrasing IMO.

Look at the flow of the 3nps players, it gets samey very fast for a lot of them, but it can vary.
 

fenderlead

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That's not how he plays. At least 90% of the time.
No I didn't say that that is how he plays, but it is a way to play that is perhaps more lateral.

When George says lateral, WTF does he mean, to find out it would be hit a video and work out what he's doing from that.

Does he mean more vertical, does he mean this or that?, it's a very general statement to say that you play laterally.

I have other things to do, but a total Benson fan would do it I would think.

I've done it for some other players, including the Django rare video, turns out Django was using upstrokes for moving to a new string for some of it, it's not going to help me much playing so called Gypsy Jazz like Django but there it is.
 
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Tag

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No I didn't say that that is how he plays, but it is a way to play that is perhaps more lateral.

When George says lateral, WTF does he mean, to find out it would be hit a video and work out what he's doing from that.

Does he mean more vertical, does he mean this or that?, it's a very general statement to say that you play laterally.

I have other things to do, but a total Benson fan would do it I would think.

I've done it for some other players, including the Django rare video, turns out Django was using upstrokes for moving to a new string for some of it, it's not going to help me much playing so called Gypsy Jazz like Django but there it is.

He plays in cage positions most times like everyone else.

 

fenderlead

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He plays in cage positions most times like everyone else.

That's what I thought judging from the videos I've seen, so what he means by lateral I have no idea and he's said it in more than one interview.
 
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fenderlead

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Just as an experiment, try playing an A Minor Pentatonic across the strings ascending/descending using 2nps and 3nps, fusiony sort of pentatonic.

Then play the same A Minor Pentatonic in the classic 5th position.

I can not play them in the same way and I phrase differently with both of them even though they are the same notes, maybe it's just me.

I also can play some things on Alto Sax that I can't or wouldn't play in the same phrasing as on Guitar and vice versa.

Notes tend to get mapped out in certain ways and various instruments have what I would call note mapping cliches that can be very hard to get out of if someone wants to IMO.
 
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Megatron

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They're CAGED like and different at the same time. very chord, arpeggio based and not necessarily 4 fingers/4 Fret like we're use to with CAGED. Highlighting specific chord tones and as you mentioned, no p4th on the Maj, and no min6 on the minor.
 
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newb3fan

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HARMONIC REGIONS
Harmonic regions are very important for thorough understanding of harmonic movement and they serve as a tool for quick adding different colours in your playing. They can be used harmonically (as chord subs) and melodically in soloing.
As you will notice, some of subs are obvious, but there are some very interesting ones. Anyway, this is exceptional organizing tool.
So what is it all about?

MAJOR Harmonic regions
1. Root (home) - Cmaj7, Am7, Em7
2. Dominant (tension) - G7, Bm7b5, Em7 (sometimes)
3. SubDominant (preparation)
a) Major SD - Fmaj7, Dm7, Bbmaj7,
b) Minor SD - Fm7 (Fm6, Fminmaj7), Bb7 (Bbsus), Abmaj7, Dbmaj7

MINOR Harmonic regions
1. Root (home) - Cm7, Ebmaj7, Gm
2. Dominant (tension) - G7, Bdim
3. SubDominant (preparation) -
a) Minor SD - Fm7 (Fm6, Fminmaj7), Bb7 (Bbsus), Abmaj7, Dbmaj7
b) Minor SD from parallel Ebmaj7 - Abm7, Db7, Bmaj7, Emaj7

Important things to understand here are:
1. These regions are not Chord families
2. These subs can be used harmonically and melodically.
3. Chords from Subdominant and Dominant regions are interchangeable
4. Subdominant Major and Subdominant Minor are interchangeable.

Now, how to apply this? First, try to analyse every chord in your songs through these regions and apply these subs. Some of them will work beautifully and some of them not so nice. For later ones try to find another inversion or just disregard them. Apply this also while soloing or composing. Keep your lines simple and your subs complicated
Also, try this on your 251's.
Compare these chords with Secret of 2 chords matrix chords.

Thanks a lot for this thread!! What's the appropriate way to apply this in practice sessions to start making progress? I have written down the analysis of TWNBAY, which is perfect because that tune happens to be in my current rotation for practicing for the jazz quintet I jam with. Do you suggest to just go bar by bar through the tune applying these regions concepts and hearing and finding the different arpeggios and lines based upon the progression and the concepts? I can't think of another better way to do it.
 

Ed DeGenaro

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22,279
Just as an experiment, try playing an A Minor Pentatonic across the strings ascending/descending using 2nps and 3nps, fusiony sort of pentatonic.

Then play the same A Minor Pentatonic in the classic 5th position.

I can not play them in the same way and I phrase differently with both of them even though they are the same notes, maybe it's just me.

I also can play some things on Alto Sax that I can't or wouldn't play in the same phrasing as on Guitar and vice versa.

Notes tend to get mapped out in certain ways and various instruments have what I would call note mapping cliches that can be very hard to get out of if someone wants to IMO.
Not sure it's applicable seeing that in order to make it the same it'd have to have a mix of 2 and 3 nps.
What he is doing when descending is doing the Django 4 note arps diagonally acrois the board...
 

ipm

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Thanks a lot for this thread!! What's the appropriate way to apply this in practice sessions to start making progress? I have written down the analysis of TWNBAY, which is perfect because that tune happens to be in my current rotation for practicing for the jazz quintet I jam with. Do you suggest to just go bar by bar through the tune applying these regions concepts and hearing and finding the different arpeggios and lines based upon the progression and the concepts? I can't think of another better way to do it.
That's right.
 

guitarjazz

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For better or for worse, the amount of detail in thread is quite a contrast to the amount of information presented in the George Benson instructional video. I guess George lets his fingers talk and BS walk.
 

Tag

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For better or for worse, the amount of detail in thread is quite a contrast to the amount of information presented in the George Benson instructional video. I guess George lets his fingers talk and BS walk.

That video was great for watching him play, but did almost nothing to help you understand what he does.
 

Ed DeGenaro

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That video was great for watching him play, but did almost nothing to help you understand what he does.
I don't think I ever saw any "instructional" video where transcribing the non explained stuff didn't end up being a better use of my time...
 

Ayan

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I don't think I ever saw any "instructional" video where transcribing the non explained stuff didn't end up being a better use of my time...
Part of the beauty of that video is that you would think BG has no idea of of what he’s doing. But that’s because maybe he couldn’t articulate it in a way that at least I could understand. But yet, it is clear beyond any doubt that he knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s got it all figured out, and he’s simply a musical genius.
 
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Tag

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Part of the beauty of that video is that you would think BG has no idea of of what he’s doing. But that’s because maybe he couldn’t articulate it in a way that at least I could understand. But yet, it is clear beyond any doubt that he knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s got it all figured out, and he’s simply a musical genius.
Gil, that's exactly right. My x teacher who studied with him said at that time (40 years ago) George knew everything by the sound of it. He would say "check this out" and play something, and Richie would have to explain what it was to George in words. It was all just colors to George, and I think that video showed it's still pretty much the same to him.
The way he says its "dark" and " sounds like something bad is going to happen next", and terms like that. Peter F. Says the same thing in one of the videos. George would play and show him something that sounded great but didnt make sense, and it was up to Peter to figure out what it was and why it worked in musical terms. George knows exactly what he is doing, he just does not know the correct terminology. I think Pat Martino said the same thing when he was young. He learned it all by ear and by other musicians showing him stuff, but it was not until years later that he learned what it was all called.
 

Megatron

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Gil, that's exactly right. My x teacher who studied with him said at that time (40 years ago) George knew everything by the sound of it. He would say "check this out" and play something, and Richie would have to explain what it was to George in words. It was all just colors to George, and I think that video showed it's still pretty much the same to him.
The way he says its "dark" and " sounds like something bad is going to happen next", and terms like that. Peter F. Says the same thing in one of the videos. George would play and show him something that sounded great but didnt make sense, and it was up to Peter to figure out what it was and why it worked in musical terms. George knows exactly what he is doing, he just does not know the correct terminology. I think Pat Martino said the same thing when he was young. He learned it all by ear and by other musicians showing him stuff, but it was not until years later that he learned what it was all called.
In Martino's Biography, I believe he might of said he played a lot of blues in C minor when he first played with Jack McGuff. Might be kind of suggestive of the way tends to convert to minor. It might of been early out of necessity or convience. My friend I studied with is a huge Martino fan and like Martino and Remler, is always converting to melodic minor usage, Dorian or Lydian. It's like his basic OS. I read a Remler article where she said the exact same thing.
 
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guitarjazz

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In Martino's Biography, I believe he might of said he played a lot of blues in C minor when he first played with Jack McGuff. Might be kind of suggestive of the way tends to convert to minor. It might of been early out of necessity or convience. My friend I studied with is a huge Martino fan and like Martino and Remler, is always converting to melodic minor usage, Dorian or Lydian. It's like his basic OS. I read a Remler article where she said the exact same thing.
Martino's 'convert to minor' is as much about practical fingering logistics,(the yin/yang as explained in his Nature Of The Guitar book) as any specific tonal mysticism.
 




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