George Benson method, Peter Farrell

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by ipm, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. fenderlead

    fenderlead Member

    Messages:
    4,285
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    I think George is basically talking about the minor 3rd movement options, Dm Fm Abm for a Dm7 G7 Cmaj, which Coltrane used in his Sheets of Sound but Coltrane was dumping them very fast and they can also be used (and are used) in a more regular way as a lot of Bop players tend to do.

    ----------


    https://www.musicradar.com/news/george-benson-the-11-guitarists-that-blew-my-mind

    “There are many reasons why I look up to Django Reinhardt. He didn’t let his handicap, down to two fingers on the left hand, deter his mastery of the instrument. He was harmonically interesting and had unbelievable technique. That guy really swung hard!


    You can’t leave the public too far behind in your improvisation, which is easy to do when you play a lot of notes like I do!

    “There’s something I learned about those outside flavours many years ago. It was an idea that came from John Coltrane, not that anyone can play like him - that’s impossible - but it was this thing called chord stacking. Instead of playing one chord, he’s got the choice of three or four. Any one of them will do when you transition from one place to another harmonically. You don’t have to play what we call a two-five progression.

    “Where you can use an A-minor or D7, which are very common, there a few other chords available in addition to that which can spice up your tonalities and harmonies. That’s what I do.

    “More recently, I’ve found triads work very nicely. They make a complete statement - it sounds like ‘dah dee dah’ or ‘dee dah dah’ - people can hear that. The public doesn’t have to work hard to understand where you are going with it. You can’t leave the public too far behind in your improvisation, which is easy to do when you play a lot of notes like I do! Django knew how to keep people interested.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
    Tag and Kentano2000 like this.
  2. fenderlead

    fenderlead Member

    Messages:
    4,285
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    https://www.guitarplayer.com/players/george-benson-january-1974

    How did you develop your fluent technique?


    Speed comes from knowing where you’re going, and the easiest way to get there. The easiest way for me to go is laterally across the fretboard, instead of vertically along it. This also gives you a better ascending and descending sound to your playing. It also breaks up position playing, and makes you freer to express yourself, because you can reach notes you couldn’t play if you were a position player.

    --------------

    https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/George_Benson_Still_the_Coolest_of_Cats

    Your technique is phenomenal. In the beginning, what did you work on to get it to such a high level?


    When I got to New York and found all these guys with all this fabulous technique—Pat Martino and Grant Green and a few others— I said, “Man, I’m not gonna be able to make it here.” I knew I couldn’t match those guys. So I started devising my own method and reexamined the fingerboard. If you play a standard guitar, where you’re playing across the fingerboard, you’re playing down the fingerboard instead of going up. If I move my hands in the direction, slide them up as I play the notes, then it’s a logical progression. That kind of thing. I had to examine that over and over again until I got it right. I’m moving in the direction that the sound is suggesting. It’s all about getting from point A to point B. So I said, “Well, let me try it this way.” And I said, “Whoa! This is much simpler—and I can be much more accurate if I do it this way.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  3. fenderlead

    fenderlead Member

    Messages:
    4,285
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    If anyone can work out what George means in the above post, then they win first prize?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
    Tag likes this.
  4. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,697
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    You said in the OP you had the complimentary books right.
    Do you know konnakol? How do the books relate to it?
    I got vol6 and quite enjoy but it's essentially a bunch of 4 bar lines.
     
  5. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,697
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
  6. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    38,775
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ed, there are 8 bars there, and can you give what the chords are for each bar? I am seeing D harmonic minor, but without hearing it, or at least seeing the changes its difficult for me to get anything from it.
    Thanks in advance!
     
  7. ipm

    ipm Member

    Messages:
    637
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Location:
    Europe
    I knew you gonna ask for this! 16th note stream in Giant lines are probably heavy to chew without different articulation. The reason he gives it in 16th note is that we don't get distracted by anything so that we can learn lines and their harmonic implications.
    Yes, I have those 2 books. Similar to konakol is that he is using syllables for rhytmic cells, like ta-ga-da-ga for 16th note cell. They are used so that we can undestand each rhythmic cell.
    He also gives solfegio excercises which should be practiced with songs with great rhythm section. Those exercises are carefully choosed by him and George and are incredible. So, you put your favourite song on and sing the excercises (without guitar), but this time you should try to give drum sounds to cells, not the syllables. Drum sounds sticks to you and they are easier to transform into picking.
    This way it enables you feel the rhythm on a much deeper level. If you have watched the last lesson when he plays solo (not rhythm) and sings Brazilian rhythms or the lesson when explains how to superimpose the 2 basic rhythms into soloing (slow funk, afro beat and double time boogaloo, remember Wes's solo on Misty?). Well, that kind of undestanding and feeling of the rhythm can be achieved with these exercises.
    So, all other books are great for harmonic undestanding and facility on the guitar, but these two books are great for giving rhythmic sense to all of that.
    Personally, I would rather play just pentatonic with the rhythm sense he demonstrates than all those harmonically advanced stuff and all those beautiful colours but with stiff rhythm.
     
    Megatron, Ed DeGenaro and ArcTrainer like this.
  8. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,697
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    He had Bb∆7 Am7 Gm7 Gm7 on the looper and if you look at it the lines basically outline Gm7 A7alt Dm7 Am7 A7alt.
    It ends first half of bar 5, alternately skip second half of bar 4 and play from second half of bar 5....the long diminshed line is shoe horned over the changes and works great. And then he literally does Am7b9 Db∆7 over Bb∆7, G°7 C13#11b9 over Am7 to the Gm chromatic resolving on A.

    The whole point is to play with the line...try it over a D Dorian, or over the first few bars of Cherokee.
     
  9. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,697
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    And the second book is basically the compound meter version of the first book?
     
  10. ipm

    ipm Member

    Messages:
    637
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Location:
    Europe
    Yes, plus rhythmic displacement and some very complex rhythmic cells.
     
    Ed DeGenaro likes this.
  11. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    38,775
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I guess I need to hear it. Bbmaj7 A-7 G-7 is played as i V i. (G- D7 G-) Of course you can play A7-D7-G- as Bb maj is also a sub for A7, and you can always approach a V from its V.
    Is that basically what hes doing? That's a typical Benson thing.
     
  12. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,697
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    Indeed.
    Or you can just see it as a D minor with color superimposed :
    Peter just said any Minor tune...
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  13. newb3fan

    newb3fan Member

    Messages:
    1,347
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Clarifying question on the "harmonic regions" concept and applications...and as applied to the TWNBAY example back in this thread....which changing from root region to dominant or sub-dominant as appropriate to the changes of the song, the arpeggios to explore are always back in relation to the key center of the tune. in this case it's Eb. Is that correct? Like for bars 3/4 with the minor ii-V to C-7 you want to explore V7 and VII half diminished sounds in the key of Eb right? Maybe this is a bad example because that's playing exactly what the changes are. Dm7b5 is the 7 half-dim chord and G7 is the V of the diatonic chords in the key center. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance...
     
  14. ipm

    ipm Member

    Messages:
    637
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Location:
    Europe
    Rhythm section plays original chords and solo player superimpose the one I've included. You can use new chords harmonically too, but be careful not to clash.
    I've uploaded that example just to show that most songs are actually just Tonic vs Subdominant or Dominant all the time, although they can have bunch of chords.
     
  15. Ruud

    Ruud Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    Hi Guys,
    My first post.

    Tag I have been reading your threads about 'The GB method'
    I Do believe in this system but I dont understand at ALL. Not yet...

    I want to understand an therefore I just downloaded some books of Peter Farrels website. Expensive but a A lot of good stuff in there.
    I also realise now, I have years of hard work ahead of me, before I can really do what I want. Improvising over Jazz standards.

    I need to Study real hard on Harmonics en Functions. And I am willing to Transcribing lines but whitout really understanding where its coming from seems stupid. Thats basicly what I did to become the pop/rock player I am now. Jazz is more like mathematics to me. I sucked At that too. But This I Really want to understand. I hope thats a big difference for the learning process.

    I have a question. This comes out the book but I still dont understand (not explained enough for my small brains)

    KEY C
    root tonic region : Cmaj (I) D-7 (III) A-7 (VI)

    Subdominant region chords ( 2 groups major en minor)
    Major- Fmaj7 (IV) DM (IIm) Bmaj (bVII)

    Minor- Fm7(6) (IVm) Bb7 (bVII) Abmaj7 (bVI) Dbmaj7 (bII)

    Dominant region
    G7 (V) Bm7b5 VII

    I can hear its ok If I play them in a cadence replacing one of the 'normal' dominant chords. But I want to understand.
    Where are these chords derived from? Anybody... THANKS TO EVERYBODY for all the good info I found on this site so far!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  16. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    38,775
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    This is a bit different than I was taught, but here is what I think Peter is talking about.

    1: In the key of C, three chords are often used as tonic chords. Cmaj 7 obviously, Dminor 7 as in songs in D Dorian. And A- based off the Aeolian mode, (which most times you are going to play as dorian anyway)

    The biggest thing you will notice is in major keys, the 4th is missing in all the tonic functioning chords, (The 1 the iii and the vi, not the same as tonic regions!!)
    and the 6th us missing in most minor unless its dorian.
    The reason is because that note needs resolution. And look, it's the same note.
    In C major, the 4th is F. In the relative minor A, the flatted 6th is that same F note.
    Knowing when to use them, and when to avoid them is one of the main factors in this system.
     
  17. Megatron

    Megatron Member

    Messages:
    1,540
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Hey Tag, I think he meant E-7.
    The Tonic family is CMaj7 E-7 and A-7.

    I think Peter obviously puts the iii chord as Tonic(an upper extension), and sometimes Dominant family.
     
  18. Ruud

    Ruud Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    Thanks for the reply.

    I Think I didnt asked clearly. First post And I messed up alreadyo_O
    How can I relate for example this chord Abmaj7 (bVI) to the C major Key. ITs not to be found in the Relative minor scale right?
     
  19. Ruud

    Ruud Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Location:
    Eindhoven

    So its from the scales of the Tonic Chords in C major? I feel really dumb by now

    An yess I mean E-7 offcoars
     
  20. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    38,775
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey

    Ah! So if its E- that IS the functioning tonic chords.
     
    Megatron and Ruud like this.

Share This Page