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Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by ipm, Jan 18, 2020.
Ah! So if its E- that IS the functioning tonic chords.
bVI is in the parallel minor - the key of C minor.
Keys are different from scales.
Those harmonic regions are based on functional relationships between and within keys.
Instead of "keys" you can also say "tonic regions" for those areas that are tonicized (not a strong keynote moduluation)
Relative and parallel relationships are based on thirds (and the inverse - 6ths). These may also be referred to as "mediant relationships"
Dominant and Subdominant relationships are based on fifths (and the inverse - 4ths)
Thank you so much. I see now.. I just didnt want to simply memerise these sub-Dominant Region chords without understanding where they came from.
Lots of work ahead. I hope I will get better at analyzing music, ore at least ask my noob questions here.
No easy, mistake.
I think it's easy to see the relationship with CMaj7 and A-7. If you know a little bit about upper extensions the iii chard will be easy too.
Except as the OP said...and I told you that in an earlier post instead of seeing everything as tonic and dominant he sees it as tonic, Subdominant, dominant...home, distancing, needing to resolve...with subdominant and dominant being interchangeable.
And to reiterate the OP...
Key of C you get in addition to the 2 dominants G7 and B-7b5 you get 7 subdominants that can function as dominant...8 if you see the occasional E-7 since it has its use as a subdominant just as much as tonic.
The 3 in major...D-7, F∆7, Bb∆7
And the minor subdominant Fm7, Bb7, Ab∆7, Db∆7
This is before you start subbing or superimposing...
I think for guys getting into jazz, one sub at a time is more than a handful. I remember learning I could play E- over A7 and it was a brain freeze!
Now I am looping | A-7 | A-7 | D-7 | D-7 | Where I used to play A aeolian and blues scale.. All the time.
Its a minor progression. So now it feels like.
A-7 dorian Tonic ? | D-7 dorian / C major Dominant?
Over the A-7 I play a Abmaj7 arp. sounds great to start a line
Then I Do the same over the D-7. Sounds a little wrong..
I hope my ears arent deceiving me. Im still not sure
Please tell me if these statements are correct. So I know understand the system.
I'd see that as vi and ii.
Tonic and (sub)Dominant.
A-7 is tonic D-7 Dominant. it means I CANT play Abmaj7 Arp over the A-7
BUT CAN play it over D-7 (AS well as the all other dom & subdominants chords) ?
He uses a ton of superimposition.
I think for guys getting into it understanding how to use C∆7/Am7 and F∆7/Dm7 over the 7 chords of Major is where it starts.
I tell you what, I find the theory aspect fun. But that's beside the point.
When I hear a line I dig I transcribe it, and see over what it was used. That gets tossed pretty fast and I see what I can use it over.
Like when I got into it I did the same thing as I see in this thread experiment with outside stuff. Sadly my inside stuff was not solid so once I accepted I learned that. The big excitement came when I realised that something I learned from a ii V I could be used over a parallel ii V i.
Anyways these analysis discussions come when guys ask like Tag did a while ago why B∆7 over Cm7 for example. And I find it interesting when in addition to my answer I find others especially from guys that are doing it.
The Dm line I posted earlier over the Gm7 A7 Bb∆7 works just as well over C7 Gm Dm7. Once this clicks us where it's at for me. And no I don't learn this by talking about it I learn by doing, but I don't mind stepping in crap when I practice.
Others don't enjoy that process so I reckon they try to figure it out.
Plus the thread IS about the OP having been a Peter Farrell student and sharing his experiences...
George's picking patterns seem to be mostly straightforward.
Downstroke when moving to a higher new string, ala sweeping.
Change to a lower new string after an upstroke, so new lower string can begin on a downstroke.
Everything else is basically alternate picking (barring some legato things).
Probably Downward pick slanting.
How much is the picking pattern determining the fingerings and phrasing?
Well running before walking...
When guys can only make ii V in their 4 fave keys Trane, etc are gonna be a tall order.
So sticking Fm Bb7 instead of Dm7 G7 involves changing one note...at least that's what I'm guessing.
I mean if you transcribe anything the harmonic possibilities of the actual line should be clear. Now actually using it might be a different story without "baby sitting". I'm just guessing though.
This Coming from the guy who didnt even know he was playing maj7s over a dom 7 chord?? He plays so beautifully the most out things sound in. His method is both simple and extremely complex at the same time.
He plays over the changes almost all the time,
very rarely key based unless it's some of the BS pop songs he did.
Key centered playing? You have the wrong guy Richard. Just like the old days!!
It bugs you guys are not talking about Metheny.
How about I'll drink to that...
And who is pontificating at length on the style?
Join us in the playalong threads.
You were complaining about guys that didn't play the style well and are pontificating...which I don't see.
I see guys talking about subs.
Is there a Jazz Police edict again that unless you play Benson talking about that is a no go?
And obviously there's keycenter thinking...that's quite apparent when one looks at the arps he uses as well as the subs.