Getting a heavier modern sound out of a vintage style amp?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Phil M, Jun 19, 2006.


  1. Phil M

    Phil M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,354
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I use an Allen Old Flame quite a bit these days. Between this amp and my pedals I am able able to easily get vintage drive and vintage high gain types of sounds. It's a looser, saggier sound. Sometimes even a little fuzzy.

    What my boosts and TS-inspired pedals haven't been able to get with this amp is a modern high gain sound. For a few songs I need liquid, tight, big sounding gain from a pedal that I can stick in front of this amp. Keep in mind that the amp is already pretty overdriven.
    • True Bypass
    • I'd like the low end response to be very deep and tight, but I don't want the mids totally scooped.
    • I would like to be able to control the gain and EQ
    • I'd also like to be able to control the volume so that I can get a few extra DBs when the pedal is engaged. It'll be for high gain leads and rhythm.
    Small Fry? Crunch Box? Tonebone? Sansamp? (I have an old GT-2 that almost gets the job done)


    Thanks.
     
  2. David-R

    David-R Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,779
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    It doesn't sound like the Small Fry or Crunch Box are what you're looking for (I have both of those).

    From other posts I've read the Tonebone Hot British might be an option.
     
  3. DocRock

    DocRock Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,840
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Location:
    The Caves of Altamira
  4. carltonh

    carltonh Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Location:
    Farmers Branch, DFW, TX
    MI Audio Tubezone is an incredible modern high gain sound whereas the Crunchbox still has some vintage roots to its high gain. This isn't to say that the Tubezone isn't musical, because it is as musical as any modern high gain sound could ever be.
     
  5. Phil M

    Phil M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,354
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Can it work with an amp that's already pretty dirty, or does it want to see a clean amp?

    Thanks, guys. I'll look into some of these other pedals that have been mentioned (never thought I'd need something like this again!)
     
  6. carltonh

    carltonh Member

    Messages:
    1,546
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Location:
    Farmers Branch, DFW, TX
    I've only tried it with very mildly dirty amps, so I don't know. I'm guessing it would blend the Tubezone's modern voicing with the vintage voicing of the amp. I think any modern pedal, Tubezone included, in such a setup would yield a mixed modern/vintage hybrid. It keeps a open and vocal clarity to it that should let it blend well.
     
  7. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

    Messages:
    5,300
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The Tonebone pedals sound best going into a clean amp. My Hot Brit is very finnicky, it didn't like having my DGTM after it in the chain. However, when it's found a rig it likes, it never fails to make me smile.

    :AOK
     
  8. Phil M

    Phil M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,354
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I need to look up one of these Tubezones. Thanks, keep them coming.
     
  9. curtisstetka

    curtisstetka Member

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    It's not true bypass but the Boss Metal Zone MT-2 has a heap of flexibility with its three band EQ. Add the Monte Allums mod and you have a fine, inexpensive pedal. I use one with my SF Deluxe Reverb whenever the mood to shred hits me.
     
  10. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,195
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    One thing that's going to unfortunately happen with a heavy pedal into a vintage style amp is the lack of attack. My Mesa Simul 2:90 power amp for example has a ferocious attack available on notes, which translates a real authority in the bass thump department. A loose bass, typical of a vintage amp like the Fenders that Allen bases his stuff on, will have a more rounded attack no matter what you do.
     
  11. Jarick

    Jarick Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,490
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I've got a Rocktron Metal Planet coming...supposed to be similar to an MT2 but flatter EQ (so similar to a Keeley MT2).

    It's got level, low, high, mid, mid freuency, and gain controls. It's not TB, but the switch is similar to the dunlop, so hopefully it can get modded easily (TB switch + pull-down resistor?). Built like a tank, too. I'll give you a full report later this week :D
     
  12. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

    Messages:
    5,300
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
  13. ReddRanger

    ReddRanger Member

    Messages:
    3,033
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    What pedals are you already using? What guitar and how are you setting the amp?
     
  14. Phil M

    Phil M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,354
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I'm primarily using an Oxblood R4 Les Paul (humbuckers). The Old Flame is set up for a pretty overdriven sound. This is not as flabby in the low end as some of the vintage Fenders that I used to crank up and the amp has enormous bass response. I generally have to keep the bass around "2". I'm using a deeper sealed Soldano 2x12 cabinet. This generally translates to a tight low end and a very directional sound. I don't know how accurate this is but for comparison's sake, the sound is in the realm of The Who Live at Leeds, Pearl Jam, Rich Robinson, etc.

    My current pedals:
    TC Jauernig Gristle King This has a clean boost and overdrive in one pedal and this is what I keep in line. It works for most of what I do.

    Lovepedal COT50 and Dragon, Don Butler Rangemaster All great, but definately in the vintage camp. I've tried stacking these in all different combinations but it just wasn't working.

    I realize that whatever pedal I'm looking for won't be the same thing as switching over to a Dual Rectifier mid-song, just looking to get in the ballpark. Tight, liquid gain.
     
  15. theelectic

    theelectic Guest

    Find a used Maxon DS-830 Distortion Master. Highly underrated so they go for < half of what they cost new. High gain, tight low end, bass and treble controls.
     
  16. gulliver

    gulliver Member

    Messages:
    5,934
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Before you do anything pedal wise, I think you need to look at your speakers. A nice modern style speaker in an oversized sealed cabinet will get you the tight tone with solid lows you will need for a more modern sound. I don't know what your amp has, but if it's a vintage style speaker in an open back cabinet you will never get the what you want regardless of the pedal.

    Maybe this can help:

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoicc8/speaker/

    From there, I would recommend the H&K Tubefactor, as it can almost act as a preamp into a clean amp and take it over with it's own modern tone.
     
  17. mavrick10_2000

    mavrick10_2000 Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    DNA GainFXXker II is worth a try. Search Splatt's posts for a sample clip.
     
  18. Mullet Kingdom

    Mullet Kingdom Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,446
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Location:
    Just South of the Colorado
    In addition to a high gain pedal you might also consider trying some speakers with a higher power handling capability -- and/or -- swapping out the tube rectifier for a solid state rec.
     
  19. Stressfest

    Stressfest Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,472
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Location:
    Perth, West Australia
    If i wanted a big arsed distortion out of a clean amp it'll be the MI Crunchbox without a doubt. It's one of the most 'amp like' tones out of a box i've experienced. If you wanted to stack instead for versatility i'd choose a cot50 into an Eternity.
     
  20. Phil M

    Phil M Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,354
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Just wanted to clarify a few things. The speakers are Soldano's own make and fairly modern sounding, not really vintage. I find them to be tighter and more focused than many other speakers that I've used.

    The Old Flame is currently running 5881s instead of 6L6 and it's using a solid state rectifier instead of a tube.

    I need the pedal to run into a sorta dirty amp. I don't run the Old Flame clean. I have tried and tried and have not had the luck with stacking pedals that some of you had. MI Tube Zone sounds intriguing. The question is whether it can run into a dirtier amp and still do what I want. Someone mentioned that because I'm using a vintage style amp, through a high gain pedal will really give you a mixture of vintage/modern. I'm prepared for that. I'll look into the Maxon DS830 that was mentioned if something used pops up. I like the idea of independent bass and treble controls.

    What about BB Preamp? Fulltone Distortion Pro?
     

Share This Page