Getting a SFPR refurbished - should I keep replaced parts?

Discussion in 'Amps/Cabs Tech Corner: Amplifier, Cab & Speakers' started by smv929, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. smv929

    smv929 Member

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    I've never had an old amp like this refurbished or upgraded. However, I have a Silver Face Princeton Reverb from around 74 that seems to be all original except for the power cord. I've had it for years and hardly used it. I want it to be a player, so I'm going to finally have it overhauled. I'm sure it needs the works: caps, tubes, cleaned/new pots, and a new speaker. Of course, I'll let the tech tell me what needs replaced for sure.

    Should I
    • Ask for all old replaced parts (i.e., caps or whatever) or
    • Make sure they don't keep anything or replace something uncessary, so they can sell it.
    in order to preserve the original parts in case I sell it.

    I've never used these guys, but they seem to be the local place to get this kind of amp work done. Anything I should be aware of like this? Thanks
     
  2. mark norwine

    mark norwine Member

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    As an amp tech, I ask the customer if they want the old stuff....but I'm also pretty clear that "if the parts were good, I wouldn't be changing them".

    The overwhelming majority of customers say "pitch them".

    That said, there are people who think that there's a "value" to having the old stuff in a baggie inside the cabinet. If you're one of them, then ask for the parts. But there really isn't any "value" there.....

    ...or is there? I see people sell *garbage* on eBay, and people seem to line up to pay good money for it.

    Go figure.

    My opinion: don't save trash.
     
  3. J M Fahey

    J M Fahey Member

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    Sounds like a good plan.

    Be sure to carry 2 witnesses with you, film and tape the whole proceedings, get parts individually sealed in stamped and signed individual envelopes, hire a Certified Expert from the Invaluable Princeton Reverb Historic Association and of course have everything Notarized.

    Remember that old molten solder sticking to the Tech soldering iron is also a sneaky way of stealing value from you.
     
  4. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

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    I've seen the "put the original components back if you sell to a collector" meme for years on the web. I can't imagine any SANE person wanting those components back in. Further, the most INSANE collector wouldn't be satisfied because it would be obvious, from the solder, that they'd be tampered with and wouldn't want the amp because it's no longer "collectible".
     
  5. smolder

    smolder Gold Supporting Member

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    "Sane" being the operative word. This is TGP.
     
  6. smv929

    smv929 Member

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    OP here. Yeah, probably dumb question. I would prefer to just get rid of the stuff, but just wanted to check, since I know nothing about the value of old Fender parts.

    The reason for the concern about the tech removing a part unnecessarily to keep/sell is because that happened to a friend. He brought an RS Guitarworks wiring kit to a music store's tech to be installed in his Les Paul. They apparently put in non-RS GuitarWorks pots, but swore those were the pots in the kit. The guys at RSGW said the tech was full of it.
     
  7. OiRogers

    OiRogers Member

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    That sums it up nicely.

    Any parts I remove from an amp (or guitar) to replace get bagged and labeled and tossed in a parts box.
    If/when I sell the amp/guitar, I offer to include those parts.

    If the buyer wants em to prove its bonafides, wonderful. If not, I skim the useful stuff and trash the rest.
     
  8. PushedGlass

    PushedGlass Member

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    I decided to keep the old parts from my SFPR restoration and head conversion, but only to a point as the original cabinet was smashed to pieces. I kept the parts mostly as a definitive record of what was in there to begin with. I thought about having the head cab maker re-use the PR's perfectly intact grille cloth, but to do that he'd have to cut it and I figured it was best sold intact to someone who was trying to do a vintage-correct restoration or repair. If storage becomes a problem, I doubt I'll keep the old electrolytics but the original output transformer should hang around; I only replaced it to open up the output a little and give myself 4- and 8-ohm outputs.
     
  9. Silent Sound

    Silent Sound Member

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    That's a tough one. On the one hand, why would you need to hold on to a part that's not working? It won't increase the value of the amp any. I might hold onto the original power cord, but as far as any caps, resistors, or pots that no longer work, I wouldn't worry about. You could probably find NOS versions of those somewhere or pull them from another old electronic device that used those same parts if you ever felt the need to get it back to original condition. But why? It's a silverface. They made enough of those that it won't hit THAT level of collectability in your lifetime. So initially, I say no, you don't need any of those parts, except the power cord. Some purists love those old power cords.

    However, you say you've never used this tech before. So it might be a good idea to keep the old parts as an insurance policy against a bad tech experience. There are no qualifications required to call yourself an amp tech. There's also no standard practice. Some techs might try to fix things like pots rather than replace them. They may try to do as little work as possible to get the amp up and running. Other techs might try to replace everything that's even remotely questionable. You could have one that tries to replace a transformer because it has some rust on the outside, or replace all of the carbon comp resistors because they have a tendency to drift over time. At the very least, it would keep a bad tech from reselling the parts he pulled from your amp.

    So I'd say ask for the bag of parts he replaced this time. After you've developed a relationship with him/her you may not want that bag of useless parts anymore. But for the first visit, it might be a good insurance policy, just in case.
     
  10. swiveltung

    swiveltung Member

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    There's just no down side to keeping those old parts in a baggie. Keep them.

    It is amazing how much collectors will pay for an amp that has no work done, they love all the original elytics to be in there! I wouldn't put them back in, but would offer them with the sale.
     
  11. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Senior Member

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    IMO you should ask for the original parts back, put them in a ziplock bag, and save them in case you ever want to sell the amp. Just the fact that you're offering the original parts to a buyer would suggest that you're careful with your gear and have taken care of it.

    I liken it to buying a s/h BMW motorcycle. A typical Beemer buyer (the motorcycles are Beemers, the cars are Bimmers) will expect a full service history with the bike. Receipts for work done, notes in the owners manual about DIY oil and filter changes, etc. That's just the way they are, and you'd probably have to discount your bike if you didn't have the info.
     
  12. wyatt

    wyatt Member

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    I always recommend asking for the parts back so you can see what has been changed. Sometimes I'll hold onto them long enough to make sure there was no issue with the work.

    But then I toss 'em. Keeping them to sell with amp...never worth it.
     
  13. Kyle B

    Kyle B Supporting Member

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    Keep the parts, then use 'em to make something cool like this:

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
  14. jcs

    jcs Member

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    Now wait a minute....those dark blue molded caps in early to mid 70's SF Fenders are good caps.

    I dang sure see WAY too many SF Fenders with all of those replaced with Orange Drops.

    Personally, from a collector standpoint, I keep parts because I want the next buyer to see the original parts.

    Many times amps have been messed with and/or a cap explodes or leaks.

    I would never pay top $ for a refurbed amp vs one that has a usual electrolytic replacement and whatever resistors replaced out of necessity, an unmolested amp that had a proper service vs. the hacked amp that has been restored!

    Otoh, I have no issue playing a restored hack job if done correctly at the right price!

    There are amps that have been butchered and then a tech attempts to put it back stock with old parts as well...maybe in this case the dark blue caps should go back in for authenticity, but anything else is nonsense.
     
  15. Diablo1

    Diablo1 Member

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    BMW owners expect German air in their tires.
     
  16. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Senior Member

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    German NITROGEN...
     
  17. wyatt

    wyatt Member

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    German hydrogen!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. smv929

    smv929 Member

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    Excellent point. Thanks to all.
     
  19. PushedGlass

    PushedGlass Member

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