Getting Some Tone Suckage With My New Set Up!

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
I changed a few things around and now my tone sounds wimpier than before. The old set up was AF-9 -- Vox wah -- EB Vol (TU-2 in tuner out) -- RC booster -- UFO -- POG --PH-1r -- Small Clone (DE-7 + AD-9 in loop). I didn't really change that much but it sounds like crap to me now. In fact, I downsized so I am baffled!

Is it because I have too many true bypassed pedals in front of the amp. The thing is I need to use all these pedals for a big gig coming up. Would a different order work or do I need a buffer in there. I thought the PH-1r would do the job but I guess it has a crappy buffer?

 

TweedBassman

Member
Messages
310
looks to me like you took out the AF-9 from the beginning, which was buffering the input to the wah and volume. without it there, you have two known tone-suckers (wah and volume) right at the beginning. also, the TU-2 in the tuner out is actually still 'seen' by guitar signal, but the buffer is not being used.

unless it dramatically affects your wah tone, i'd put the TU-2 at the beginning to buffer the pickups before the signal hits the pedals.
 

TimH

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,147
looks to me like you took out the AF-9 from the beginning, which was buffering the input to the wah and volume. without it there, you have two known tone-suckers (wah and volume) right at the beginning. also, the TU-2 in the tuner out is actually still 'seen' by guitar signal, but the buffer is not being used.

unless it dramatically affects your wah tone, i'd put the TU-2 at the beginning to buffer the pickups before the signal hits the pedals.
Is your RC booster a lead boost or an always on kind of pedal? If it's the later, put it up front. Another option is to take the pedals out of the chain one at a time to discover the culprit...once you isolate the problem simply buy a 1 loop Truebypass loooper for that pedal. I had major tone suckage from my vol pedal/TU2 and that's how I solved it.
 

TweedBassman

Member
Messages
310
another thing to ponder is... sometimes the EB volumes start to go bad. they have a string connected to the pot, and this string can get whacked out over time, causing the pedal to either not 'bottom out' and turn down all the way, or to not 'top out' and still attenuate signal when full on.

a good way to tell is to throw it in a bypass looper pedal and check it that way, or just go guitar > EB VP > amp the skip it and go right to the amp and see if it's the problem.
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
looks to me like you took out the AF-9 from the beginning, which was buffering the input to the wah and volume. without it there, you have two known tone-suckers (wah and volume) right at the beginning. also, the TU-2 in the tuner out is actually still 'seen' by guitar signal, but the buffer is not being used.

unless it dramatically affects your wah tone, i'd put the TU-2 at the beginning to buffer the pickups before the signal hits the pedals.
Yeah, I actually didn't use the AF-9 the last two nights because I forgot to buy a battery for it and the last two times my tone bothered me...BUT...I thought the Maxon AF-9's were true bypass? I have the newest version that supposedly has been fixed to have a complete TB switch now?

The Vox wah has been modded by Keeley and is true bypass so that's not a problem. I know the EB id a known tone sucker but I used it before and the minimal loss never bothered me. Maybe it's crapping out like you said.

I can try putting the TU-2 first but that creates some wiring/space issues. I need a bigger board!
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
Is your RC booster a lead boost or an always on kind of pedal? If it's the later, put it up front. Another option is to take the pedals out of the chain one at a time to discover the culprit...once you isolate the problem simply buy a 1 loop Truebypass loooper for that pedal. I had major tone suckage from my vol pedal/TU2 and that's how I solved it.
The RC booster is used for a lead boost only but now I am thinking about leaving it on if I can't reslove the problem and just use the Vol pedal for rhythm/lead like I used to. I could go through each pedal but I think maybe the fact that I don't have a good buffer may be the problem? What else could affect the tone other than the TU-2/Vol/or PH-1r when all the rest are TB?

You put you vol pedal in a TB loop? That would be a pain in the ass I think. I am consatntly working the volume pedal.
 

TimH

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,147
on every song and all the time? If so, forget it. I use my vol pedal once a set and so when I need it I deal with the tone loss (not very noticeable at band level) but if I don't need it I take it out of the loop.
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
on every song and all the time? If so, forget it. I use my vol pedal once a set and so when I need it I deal with the tone loss (not very noticeable at band level) but if I don't need it I take it out of the loop.
Yep, in fact I rarely take my foot off of it (makes a good foot rest for when I am singing)! I dial it back for my cleans or rhythm playing and put it full on for leads or crunchy parts.

Do you use it for swells? If so then I can see having it in a loop. Mine is like my channel switcher.
 

wc8485

Member
Messages
228
If nothing else seems to help man, try a good quality buffer... before or after the wah.
Axess Electronics BS-2
Durham Sex Drive
Antelope MDEQ
and the like. There are more of course, those are just off the top of my head.
I run Guitar > BS-2 > TB Wah > Phase 90 > GE-7(sniper mod) > TU-2 > Amp.

Without the BS-2 inline, I noticed some high end loss at rehearsal/gig levels. I'm using Gepco/Mogami cables going amp to PB, and PB to Amp... Less than 30 ft. combined, with George L's on the PB. Putting the BS-2 inline adds some squak to my wah and restores(at least to my ears) some of that high end. Let it be noted, I was very hesitant to put the TU-2 inline. Yet, at rehearsal/gig volume I did not hear any negative impact on my sound. Just a thought... FWIW.
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
If nothing else seems to help man, try a good quality buffer... before or after the wah.
Axess Electronics BS-2
Durham Sex Drive
Antelope MDEQ
and the like. There are more of course, those are just off the top of my head.
I run Guitar > BS-2 > TB Wah > Phase 90 > GE-7(sniper mod) > TU-2 > Amp.

Without the BS-2 inline, I noticed some high end loss at rehearsal/gig levels. I'm using Gepco/Mogami cables going amp to PB, and PB to Amp... Less than 30 ft. combined, with George L's on the PB. Putting the BS-2 inline adds some squak to my wah and restores(at least to my ears) some of that high end. Let it be noted, I was very hesitant to put the TU-2 inline. Yet, at rehearsal/gig volume I did not hear any negative impact on my sound. Just a thought... FWIW.

Thanks for the suggestions. What sucks is I had Doobtone build me a micro-buffer about a year ago and I just sold it about 4 months back because I didn't notice any difference with it there. Now I think I need another one! That thing was great because it was so tiny. As you can see, space is an issue on my board.
 

radcliff

Member
Messages
1,993
switch the RC booster for a Sexdrive, and get rid of that Ernie Ball volume

if the POGs not TB, put it in a loop
 

RDM

Senior Member
Messages
3,713
Yeah....you're EB Volume pedal is causing issues. You need a buffer in front of it and behind it for it to work properly. Also....take the TU-2 out of the tuner out and put it inline, but dead last.
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
switch the RC booster for a Sexdrive, and get rid of that Ernie Ball volume

if the POGs not TB, put it in a loop
I don't want to do that because the RC Booster is perfect for my Splawn. Aren't both of those true bypass?

The POG is TB.
 

DonaldDemon

Member
Messages
8,844
Yeah....you're EB Volume pedal is causing issues. You need a buffer in front of it and behind it for it to work properly. Also....take the TU-2 out of the tuner out and put it inline, but dead last.
You may be right. Before I had the Boss phaser right after it and it worked fine. Do you think putting the TU-2 before the EB and the PH-1r after it will get the buffering job done?
 




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