Gibson = Dad Rock? Has Gibson miscalculated for the future?

budg

Silver Supporting Member
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4,621
Anyone complaining about how expensive Gibson’s are out to check out amp prices lately. Holy moly .
 

ixnay

Member
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4,811
Anyone complaining about how expensive Gibson’s are out to check out amp prices lately. Holy moly .

Or the prices of just about any other USA made guitars. A $2699 Les Paul Standard is starting to look like a bargain compared to many of those, it is even on par with some MIJ prices. Just as one example, a USA Jackson Soloist is now $4000+ and the MIJ version is $2699.
 

budg

Silver Supporting Member
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4,621
Or the prices of just about any other USA made guitars. A $2699 Les Paul Standard is starting to look like a bargain compared to many of those, it is even on par with some MIJ prices. Just as one example, a USA Jackson Soloist is now $4000+ and the MIJ version is $2699.
Yeah , the price of anything mostly is at an all time high. Yet there are some “bargains” if you keep your eyes open. I bought a LP 50s Standard in my Avatar for 2250 new without any flaws . This was in December after the price increase. Just a few hundred dollars less than a Silver Sky.
 

webcat

Member
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945
Anyone complaining about how expensive Gibson’s are out to check out amp prices lately. Holy moly .
Yep. There are numerous amps that have caught my eye, only for the price to close that door. The biggest thing for me with amps is also a lack of use - whereas I can use an expensive guitar almost anywhere, including unplugged late at night, or take it on holiday with me, or small gigs etc, a loud amp is different. Even when I had a 100w TSL and used the power reduction to 25W, I never even got it to halfway on the volume. Certainly never needed it at a gig either.
 

MeHereNow

Member
Messages
280
Most "young" folks I know, living on their own or together, say 25ish have 800 dollar iphones, 500 dollar playstation 5's a car and aren't what I consider real wealthy or have rich/wealthy parents.
They work, all kinds of jobs, construction, in an office and even pro musicians etc..
And most of them who are guitarist' have a plethora of guitars and amps at home to choose from
Gibson and Fender as their main axes I'd like to add.
So I'm really curious how these research and statistics come together in stating younger folks can't afford high end guitars.
 

Don A

Gold Supporting Member
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6,772
I haven't read all 22 pages to see if this has been mentioned, but Gibson has always struggled with the younger market compared to Fender. The Flying V, Explorer, Firebird, and SG were all attempts are rectifying that. Even these guitars and their hardware were kinda clunky and no where as sleek and modern as Fender's.
 

webcat

Member
Messages
945
Most "young" folks I know, living on their own or together, say 25ish have 800 dollar iphones, 500 dollar playstation 5's a car and aren't what I consider real wealthy or have rich/wealthy parents.
They work, all kinds of jobs, construction, in an office and even pro musicians etc..
And most of them who are guitarist' have a plethora of guitars and amps at home to choose from
Gibson and Fender as their main axes I'd like to add.
So I'm really curious how these research and statistics come together in stating younger folks can't afford high end guitars.
You're being too kind with "research and statistics" here. Someone looked at a stage at Coachella and said "hmm, not many Gibsons here."

In a similar level of research, I have seen no Rolls Royce cars on my road, so I can only assume they've gone out of business.
 

Benz2112

Memba?
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
7,902
Most "young" folks I know, living on their own or together, say 25ish have 800 dollar iphones, 500 dollar playstation 5's a car and aren't what I consider real wealthy or have rich/wealthy parents.
They work, all kinds of jobs, construction, in an office and even pro musicians etc..
And most of them who are guitarist' have a plethora of guitars and amps at home to choose from
Gibson and Fender as their main axes I'd like to add.
So I'm really curious how these research and statistics come together in stating younger folks can't afford high end guitars.
Because outliers are outliers.
 

vadsy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,286
You're being too kind with "research and statistics" here. Someone looked at a stage at Coachella and said "hmm, not many Gibsons here."

In a similar level of research, I have seen no Rolls Royce cars on my road, so I can only assume they've gone out of business.

No kidding. It's the same disgruntled crowd that has something against these guitars and been speaking to their supposed doom for the last 10 or 15 years.
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
9,481
What the girl said in the video I suggested. She said Gibson is for old boomers. The LP is shaped like a old acoustics and to heavy. No artist but Slash and she dislikes him. Broken headstocks, crappy design's, V guitars are cool, and she hates all the law suites. They only advertise to boomers. They need to invest in young artist. She could fix Gibson. :spit

She said loved Fender they gave guitars out to YouTubers. They never set her one Gibson but she did not want one anyway. She showed a bunch of YouTubers saying Fender gave or sent me a guitar.

She said Marty Schwartz went to Gibson to get a 335. She dislikes it because it is too big. She said young people loved Fender. And showed all the artist that used them. Gibson dose not send random Youtuber guitars like Fender does.

So if young people dislike Gibson how can they win them back? Think about it. Is she wrong for sharing her opinion?
 

Ry@n

Member
Messages
2,391
I had a Marshall half stack for a long time, and a JCM 900 1x12, but I never ever had any need for the larger one in any gigs. The 1x12 I sold for a Marshall Code, which was more than loud enough for gigs, and then I sold both and replaced with the Katana, which has been a great move for me.

You're totally right that Gibson isn't doing much for that first guitar and the under-25s will struggle to get one, but I don't think Gibson has that outlook, they're more like Apple or luxury brands in their approach which is "this is what we are, buy us if you can." Likening their lower models to Squier would be a big departure from that, especially as the cheaper Gibsons still have various aspects that make them Gibson - USA made, nitro finish, set neck.

On the other hand, Epiphone has finally got its reputation to a great place, to a point that the gap between an Epiphone and Gibson has never been smaller. So again, why risk damaging that by saying it's like Squier? And as true as it is when you say that the Squier looks the same as Fender, that 19 year old very quickly learns the damn thing doesn't stay in tune for long, or it doesn't sound that great, or it needs a setup etc - basically, they'll often realise it's not a lifetime guitar.

As you say, I wouldn't want the manager's job either. But I think the mistake threads like this make is assuming that they're competing for the same market - Gibson is inherently positioning itself as the brand for "professionals" and "serious" musicians. I'm not saying if that's good or bad, just that it is what it is.

I also go back to what I said previously: it's something of a myth that Gibson is way more expensive than Fender. If you compare the USA Fenders, the prices are higher (the cheapest Gibson is cheaper than the cheapest USA Fender). If Fender only put its logo on USA instruments, the idea that they're cheap would evaporate overnight. The Mexican models are cheaper, the USA ones are not. Gibson only sells USA models, so their starting price is higher. Both brands have super expensive custom shop models too.
But the MIM Fenders are less expensive than any Gibson. So, in terms of this marketing question about Fender being more accessible than Gibson, and that possibly leading to more younger artists having Fenders in their hands when people see them play, Gibson is more expensive than Fender.

I would agree the prices are justified for Gibson because of the labor involved (Rhett says this in his video, by the way, for those who didn’t even watch it and are responding based on the title alone), but it is simply true that there are lower-priced Fenders than there are Gibsons. It is also true that a MIM Fender looks basically like the top-level American Fender, which is not at all true of the lowest-prices Gibsons (which may, indeed, play and sound great; but this is a marketing question, so aesthetics matter). Some of these arguments want to dismiss MIM Fenders from the picture, but I don’t think that’s reality in the market.
 

vadsy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,286
What the girl said in the video I suggested. She said Gibson is for old boomers. The LP is shaped like a old acoustics and to heavy. No artist but Slash and she dislikes him. Broken headstocks, crappy design's, V guitars are cool, and she hates all the law suites. They only advertise to boomers. They need to invest in young artist. She could fix Gibson. :spit

She said loved Fender they gave guitars out to YouTubers. They never set her one Gibson but she did not want one anyway. She showed a bunch of YouTubers saying Fender gave or sent me a guitar.

She said Marty Schwartz went to Gibson to get a 335. She dislikes it because it is too big. She said young people loved Fender. And showed all the artist that used them. Gibson dose not send random Youtuber guitars like Fender does.

So if young people dislike Gibson how can they win them back? Think about it. Is she wrong for sharing her opinion?

the research you have done by watching a YouTuber who didn't get their way is why Gibson is probably going to close the doors to the factory this afternoon
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
9,481
the research you have done by watching a YouTuber who didn't get their way is why Gibson is probably going to close the doors to the factory this afternoon
I never said that. And did no research. :dunno

I said if young people hate them how can they win them back?
 

webcat

Member
Messages
945
What the girl said in the video I suggested. She said Gibson is for old boomers. The LP is shaped like a old acoustics and to heavy. No artist but Slash and she dislikes him. Broken headstocks, crappy design's, V guitars are cool, and she hates all the law suites. They only advertise to boomers. They need to invest in young artist. She could fix Gibson. :spit

She said loved Fender they gave guitars out to YouTubers. They never set her one Gibson but she did not want one anyway. She showed a bunch of YouTubers saying Fender gave or sent me a guitar.

She said Marty Schwartz went to Gibson to get a 335. She dislikes it because it is too big. She said young people loved Fender. And showed all the artist that used them. Gibson dose not send random Youtuber guitars like Fender does.

So if young people dislike Gibson how can they win them back? Think about it. Is she wrong for sharing her opinion?

But this is one person's opinion - you don't think we could find an individual with that opinion of any brand? Slash has said he likes Fenders but they go out of tune on stage and single coils are too noisy for his style of music, so does that mean Fender is doomed?

The LP is shaped like an old acoustic - actually the reason I disliked them at 13 years of age. Now they're my favourite guitar. Subjective opinion and meaningless.

Too heavy - except they have weight relieved LPs, and not all Gibsons are heavy (SG, 335 etc)

Broken headstocks - not if you don't do drop it, which could break any headstock

No artist but Slash - is Lzzy Hale Slash in disguise?

Fender gave her a guitar, Gibson didn't - ha, sounds like "whatever, I didn't want one anyway!"

Young people all love Fender, and coincidentally Fender just happens to give them all free guitars? Riiiiight.

"Young people" do not dislike Gibson.

There are young people who dislike Gibson, and older people who dislike Gibson. There are also young people who love Gibson, hate Fender, love Fender, hate Ibanez, Gretsch etc.
 




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