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Gibson files for Chapter 11

HERSCHEL

Member
Messages
5,603
Attention Gibson

Brand all guitars as Gibson! Put the Gibson headstock on overseas guitars. Kids want to play Gibson like their heroes, not Epiphone. Fender does it. Gretsch does it. You can do it too.

Make "Burst" era Les Pauls, 335s, Firebirds, SGs, and Vs! That's what people want to play. Maybe reissue a 355 every now and then.

No more robot tuner crap!
No more bright blue or green LPs!

Rant over. :confused:
Ever heard of Squier?

That would all but assure I and many others would never buy their guitars again.
 

webe123

Member
Messages
1,402
This is a very sad day for everyone concerned.

Whatever deal Henry had before would only still be in existence because the creditors wanted it to be or because he was deemed essential to make a transition.

Management teams that lose a business usually only get to continue if creditors deem events to have been substantially beyond their control.

I'm not an insider but that seems like a difficult case to make here.

After the transition, Henry is most likely out and with a much smaller personal balance sheet.

I'm sorry for all Gibson stakeholders (workers, suppliers, owners, lenders, families, customers, etc. etc.).

Nobody won here.
Actually they DID WIN! As long as Henry J was in control.... Gibson was going to go down! It was just a fact! Now with him taken out and made a little more than a figurehead...maybe not for long at that, the company and everyone involved has a chance to start over. Remember...it was Henry J's stupid ideas like trying to turn the company into a "lifestyle" company and coming out with the most horrible designs of guitars that put Gibson in the spot that it is in now! As long as he was in charge Gibson was going nowhere fast....now at least they have a chance to change that. You sound like you are sorry for Henry j and the fat cats that have been his cronies! Well I am NOT sorry for him...NOT AT ALL! He did this to himself. I just hope the people at the lower end like the factory workers are not harmed by this. I could care less what happens to upper management at Gibson Guitars!
 

HERSCHEL

Member
Messages
5,603
In my opinion the value of used Gibson's just went up. The creditors are owed a ton of money. Since guitars make the majority of profit margins will have to go up to pay at least a few hundred million back. Increased margins means cost cutting. The staple of private equity.
You really have no idea how this stuff works. The only reason values would go up is panic-stricken fools going ape.
 

HERSCHEL

Member
Messages
5,603
I would like to see Epiphone move back to Korea or even Japan for some of the higher end models.
What good would that really do? The Chinese factory has been going strong for over a decade now. They will make as good a guitar as they get paid to make, just like Korea or Japan.
 

MoPho

Pho Shizzle
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,629
Since HENRY is the majority owner, I’m not sure he will be easily pushed aside.....
I'm sure this has already been said but there are holders of Gibson's debt who will dump Henry as soon as they choose. The guy has totally mismanaged the business...no way he will be given a lifeline.
 

AaeCee

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
18,215
As I said in the other schadenfreude-laced Gibson chap. 11 thread, WE (here at TGP) were right about the issues and proper fix all along ... this time at least. You hear me talkin', Henry?!! :)
 

Toosday

Member
Messages
192
You really have no idea how this stuff works. The only reason values would go up is panic-stricken fools going ape.
I speculate for a living. Part of being successful in speculation is knowing who the sheep are. Thanks for confirming that there is plenty of profit to be made off of people who have foolish viewpoints based on emotion not systems dynamics.
 

toomanyamps

Member
Messages
1,787
So, lemme get this straight. The guy that destroyed Gibson is put in charge of its resurrection.

Strange days indeed.....
No...in spite of what people on this board say, Henry did a fantastic job of running Gibson for nearly 30 years. He saved Gibson in 1986, he didn't destroy Gibson, he spent all Gibson's money buying Onkyo, TEAC, Philips etc. The big money creditors saw an opportunity to take Gibson away from Henry and seized it. There is nobody else left alive in the world who has the experience running a guitar company as large as Gibson.
 

Toosday

Member
Messages
192
No...in spite of what people on this board say, Henry DID a fantastic job of running Gibson for nearly 30 years. He saved Gibson in 1986, he didn't destroy Gibson, he spent all Gibson's money buying Onkyo, TEAC, Philips etc. The big money creditors saw an opportunity to take Gibson away from Henry and seized it. There is nobody else left alive in the world who has the experience running a guitar company as large as Gibson INTO BANKRUPTCY.
I corrected your post.
 
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HERSCHEL

Member
Messages
5,603
I speculate for a living. Part of being successful in speculation is knowing who the sheep are. Thanks for confirming that there is plenty of profit to be made off of people who have foolish viewpoints based on emotion not systems dynamics.
Touche. You're counting on the fools, which is often a good gamble, often even if not sustainable.
 

AaeCee

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
18,215
More of a thought than a recommendation ... but if I were another builder considering a LP-ish clone type, this is when I'd consider my launch. :rolleyes:
 

webe123

Member
Messages
1,402
But yeah, on TGP it's all black-and-white and Henry is a bridge-troll.
Yeah Henry J IS A TROLL! Not because he took a chance but the way he ran the company into the ground by all the stupid things he did...but you wouldn't know anything about that ....would you? GIVE ME A BREAK!
 

arniez

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
872
Would just like to,say this;while everyone dances around Henry's demise. First: I’m no fan of what Henry has done! Have you ever had a dream? To be a star, for everyone to appreciate your musical genius the way you see it? Have you ever taken the biggest risk in your life, thinking you might fail? But you don.t care! So Henry rescued Gibson and made it relevant again. Then he F'd it up. He made a butt load of money for himself, presumably, and now he has established himself as the Satan of the guitar world. i own a Gibson advanced jumbo,my first quality electric was a '66 335 the guitar I dreamed about and an R 8 I couldn’t tolerate due to,poor QC. Some of this bashing is very justified, but in some ways it totally misses the point that he took huge risks, made the brand more relevant agiain, and then also made a lot of mistakes. No risk no gain. He took a shot maybe he blew it. Maybe he blew it really bad, but he took the risk and he suffers the blame. I can't help,but wonder how many of us would be willing to,take the risk? How many give of the job they hate, but supports them and their family to make music, to do that which really desire but risks what is near and dear to them. So, I think Henry did a poor job and have little use for most of his product. I think he is a Putz, but I do recognize the dream he chased and the risks he took despite his failure.
ArnieZ
 
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Toosday

Member
Messages
192
Touche. You're counting on the fools, which is often a good gamble, often even if not sustainable.
My previous post about the positive impact on the used market is long term based on the hypothesis private equity will cut costs and future quality will decrease due to cost cutting. You may disagree and that is cool.
 




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